binky bee's binky bee bop

[binky bee]

My first operation. Yay!

The aim is simple - to get out there and play some poker. 1,000 hands, to be precise.

Where am I now? I have been playing for a few days (literally) and lost more than I have won. Making big mistakes, see?

Then I read some great guides and learned some stuff which made me a fraction better. Trouble is the baseline was so bad that the improvement was not such a big deal. I lost some more.

Then I had a single coaching session with bikes. Now that was worth a lot! A single session after that and I saw a reversal in the original trend:

Quite a lot of small wins and a few big losses wiping them out and more turned into:

Quite a few small losses with a few big wins making up for them and more.

I like the second formula better.


My starting bankroll = $60.
My tables - $0.01/$0.02 NLH

Bank roll at end of operation? Anyone want to open a spread on it?

[binky bee]

65 hands dealt.

Started at $60.00
Finished on $61.71
Gain $1.71 = 85.5x bb

Hero status = sober.

I actually played only about 3 hands - I got rubbish hands almost exclusively. I can happily report that I avoided a few bad temptations pre-flop!

For $0.01/$0.02 NL the table seemed to be pretty tight to me. People were betting 4x bb and folding when challenged, very, very few instances of crazy raising.

The only fun hand came right at the end when I was on BB and was dealt KK. I called, so as not to frighten people out of the pot and got raised twice to like 75x bb. I called it and won it.

Did I overexpose myself? This question is posed here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lh-190036.html

[jyms]

IF people are folding when you raise KK because they are frightened then do you not see another way to take advantage of them and win some small pots when in the BB?

[binky bee]

IF people are folding when you raise KK because they are frightened then do you not see another way to take advantage of them and win some small pots when in the BB?

By just raising every now and then to grab the pot. This will also have the advantage that if they stand up to me, I fold thus mixing up my game a bit.

Is that what you mean and am I right?

I daresay at some stage I will add features to my game.

[kickass]

Good luck fella!

[binky bee]

Good luck fella!

Thanks, bud!

[jyms]

By just raising every now and then to grab the pot. This will also have the advantage that if they stand up to me, I fold thus mixing up my game a bit.

Is that what you mean and am I right?

I daresay at some stage I will add features to my game.

Ya short answer is if your never 3betting anything than AA, KK and QQ there, then they are right to either fold scared or call and play perfectly against your known monster. You need to have more hands when 3 betting than just monster hands or they play perfect. Spend more time on what they have, and what your whole range of hands are, than what you have.

[StarGrinder]

Ok yeah you really are a total n00b fish.

Good luck dude, seems you have a real open mind to learning the game. You're a leg up on most of us since you haven't developed a ton of awful leaks.

[Keith]

did bikes cover set mining with you ?

[bikes]

set mining is a horridly dated concept. that is getting worse and worse and worse as poker goes on.

[bikes]

infact its probably one of the more bigger leaks of people who stuggle to move up

[binky bee]

infact its probably one of the more bigger leaks of people who stuggle to move up

OK, so I'm going to shove that one to the back of the queue for now!

[binky bee]

Ok yeah you really are a total n00b fish.

Good luck dude, seems you have a real open mind to learning the game. You're a leg up on most of us since you haven't developed a ton of awful leaks.

Thanks Star. A put down and a compliment at the same time. My reading of that is that the good bit outweighed the bad bit by at least a lot!

Looking forward to finding you on the tables!

[Keith]

it may well be horridly dated and getting worse , but it doesn't get away from the fact that by flatting with the kings he gave mp1 the perfect opportunity to call behind and set mine him with his 99.higher up sets may well not get paid off but its highly likely that it will get paid at 2nl or that he may well pay them off if he doesn't know about it.

look at binkys response to your comments, its on the back burner, hes not going to look at the concept and understand the maths of it and how it should or shouldn't affect his betsizing

Instead of saying reraise to 0.30, why not explain how you came to choose that betsize. By his vague response to hoopy's question about what betsize and why combined with his comment in this thread

I called, so as not to frighten people out of the pot

indicates that he could do with some pointers about mindset,betsizing and the reasons why.

[binky bee]

it may well be horridly dated and getting worse , but it doesn't get away from the fact that by flatting with the kings he gave mp1 the perfect opportunity to call behind and set mine him with his 99.higher up sets may well not get paid off but its highly likely that it will get paid at 2nl or that he may well pay them off if he doesn't know about it.

look at binkys response to your comments, its on the back burner, hes not going to look at the concept and understand the maths of it and how it should or shouldn't affect his betsizing

Instead of saying reraise to 0.30, why not explain how you came to choose that betsize. By his vague response to hoopy's question about what betsize and why combined with his comment in this thread indicates that he could do with some pointers about mindset,betsizing and the reasons why.

Whew, keith! There's a whole bunch of stuff there!

I think that one of my biggest problems right now is sorting which ideas to understand next. I need to line them up.

[d0zer]

Whew, keith! There's a whole bunch of stuff there!

I think that one of my biggest problems right now is sorting which ideas to understand next. I need to line them up.

Learning poker is an iterative process: keep putting small building blocks on top of others long enough over and over again and you'll build a fortress. Prioritizing stuff is tough as it's tough to quantify importance of concepts. Just having the motivation to keep learning, and actually following through on that motivation gives you a massive edge over the vast majority of poker players so keep that up and you'll be fine.

[binky bee]

99 hands dealt

Started at $61.71
Finished on $61.77
Gain $0.06 = 3x bb

Hero status = decidedly squiffy

This was another careful session (well done me!) and I played only about 6 hands. Hey, that meant I lost 10 bb's and 10 sb's and now I am happy with that.

Sure, there was no great opportunity for a big win like there was in my first session, but 30 cents is a splash of water in the (comparative) pool of my bank roll and therefore a fair price to pay to look for a win or two.

The session started before it started. I was getting ready to get out of the house to join my weekly Dungeon's and Dragons group (there, I have confessed, I am a geek and a fish) and I decided to fill the time by reading a couple of articles.

I re-read:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ers-93053.html
This is really basic stuff, the first article in the beginner's thread. But I was glad I re-read it. OK, I have taken on the basic principle. But the underlying rationale is so important and having it spelt out to me again was good; you need to be able to play without worrying about winning or losing a hand, or even a session. The bottom line after 10,000 hands should matter, but not after 100.

Having said that I will keep on looking at my bankroll after each session. If it has gone down I will look for why. If I played the losing hand right, then no worries. If I did not then I want to be able to nip it in the bud right away. Statistics make for very poor masters, but as servants they are invaluable.

I then read a new article:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...od-116148.html
Wow! This one is just awesome and it should be compulsory reading for every new poker player. Thank the Gods of Poker that it is not! The insight from this article is the nuts and I will be reading it again. And again.

So, back to the session.

As my hero status indicates I was on the wrong side of a few pints of real ale (Wychwood brewery's Hobgoblin ruby ale - one of the best) consumed with my geeky chums. I returned to a house asleep and it was poker o'clock!

Now, pre-coaching with bikes, being drunk would have meant a loss. But my ABC game held firm. Even in the face of no opportunities for a decent win. I am so pleased with that! I might emphasise that my ABC game at this stage is really just that - pre-flop selection and position awareness.

The only thing I did to mix it up was to steal two blinds with a 4x bb bet when everyone folded to me. Both times I planned it ahead of time. Both times I told myself I would do it if, and only if, everyone folded to me on the button. Indeed the plan was aborted once when the pre-condition was not met - again, this may not sound like a great victory, but I am learning discipline.

Looking at the bottom line after the session I see that I would have exactly broken even had I not stolen those two blinds. Nice.

[Keith]

that takes me back .....used to play at uni and for a couple of years after until wives and kids interupted things. had all the 2nd edition books before they dumbed it down . wouldn't have a clue what edition they are now .

[binky bee]

that takes me back .....used to play at uni and for a couple of years after until wives and kids interupted things. had all the 2nd edition books before they dumbed it down . wouldn't have a clue what edition they are now .

Yeah, I played at school and went back to it a couple of years' back. It is way more fun with grown ups! And quite a group; lawyer, consultant histologist, prison wing governor, retail manager, local government business consultant, computer programmer (ok, the last one not so much of a surprise...) and we are all so, so immature and silly! Awesome fun!

[binky bee]

Session 3

70 hands dealt

Started at $61.77
Finished on $63.64
Gain $1.87 = 93.5x bb

Hero status = sober

A more interesting game this one with many more opportunities to put down a bet.

I made one error, or so I thought at the time, but now I think I was right. I'll post that hand up for some thoughts. Basically I saw a straight on the flop and bet, but my hole cards making up the straight were at the wrong end of that straight. I only saw the flop because I was on the big blind and I was able to check. My bet was raised and I folded.

I had some nice pairs in a couple of hands and bet on them, 4x bb or thereabouts. I got nothing on the flop and got a bet both times and folded. So that was good.

A fun hand was when I had KK. I raised and called an aggressive re-raise. On the flop I had top pair and raised and called the re-raise. Same for the turn and the river. By the river I had two pairs, one of them shared the other (kings) in my pocket. So did the other guy! Pot split between the two of us.

It was a game in which my bank roll slowly dropped and popped back up again here and there, until near the last hand. I had AA and bet 4x bb. Someone went all-in and I started grinning as I watched it unfold to the point when all those lovely chips fell into my lap.

I like this game.

But I must re-read:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ath-97117.html

Now would be a good time to do that, I think.

[binky bee]

Session 4

231 hands dealt

Started at $63.64
Finished on $62.57
Loss $1.07 = 53.5x bb

Hero status = sober, drinking a little bit as we went along, snacking on junk

Wow. My longest session to date. And quite a session - I did not feel on top of the thing at all. So I probably should have quit earlier.

First off I tried two-tabling again, my third go. I was handling it fine and keeping up with the games. But I wasn't finding the time to think about what had happened, about my hand, about what other hands the other guys may have had and all that kind of thing.

Sure, I know that my analytical tools for all this kind of thing are all but non-existant, but that curiosity and the desire to try and work it out is important, isn't it?

The general report is that I almost completely stuck to my ABC game. The observant among you will already have taken note of the word 'almost'.

It was while two-tabling that I made my first mistake. I am not going to post it because I saved a lot of HH's from this session and I don't want to post them all.

I got QQ pre-flop
I bet and was called. Villain was looking to be fairly ABC'ish, but I had not seen much of him at all.
The flop came and I got nothing. But my QQ was still top pair. So I bet. Villain raised me and I called him.
What did I remember from my lessons? I remembered to bet big when I had it.
What did I forget from my lessons? To seriously re-evaluate my position with only a pair if raised on the flop. I didn't and I was beat by three of a kind (JJJ) two of them in the villain's hole.

Could I have blamed that on the fact that I was two-tabling? It is tempting because then I would not have to admit the flaw in my play. But it was not the two-tabling that what did it. I forgot a basic principle that was so well taught to me by bikes. Sorry bikes!

So decided to go to a single table. It was a funny evening and I jumped tables a lot.

I made a second error. I was able to check to the flop and flopped a high pair (JJ). Again, on the turn, I found myself calling a raise with only a pair. He bet big on the river and I folded, so it could have ben worse.

In the end it was a frustrating session. I had a few decent hands pre-flop but none of them played out nicely for me and I became horribly aware that I am very lacking in my post-flop game. Looking over it all, I don't think that any of my mistakes came pre-flop. So, I need to look through the forums for pointers.

As I said earlier, I saved a lot of HH's for review. I'm going to cheer myself up with the one hand that I really enjoyed. I am not sure how well I played it, so comments of every kind are invited. Especially if you have a hot avatar.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...er-190051.html

[binky bee]

Session 5

35 hands dealt

Started at $62.57
Finished on $62.63
Gain $0.06 = 3x bb

Hero status = sober, a bit tired and actually not in a great mood. Life can get you down sometimes, can't it?

I did not play long for this game. I daresay that I should not have played at all but I tried to play it ultra safe to make up for my mood. Good plan? Maybe. Keeping it short was probably the best part of the plan, once the decision to play had been made.

I folded a lot. That was good. I bet with a couple of good hands and came away with modest wins. Then I stopped. I lost nothing but them blinds.

But the session was extremely frustrating.

For my first couple of sessions for this operation it was all so easy. I followed the very basic steps I was told to follow and it worked. Now of course I am trying to advance. To do that I am trying to understand some really basic ideas - like how much I should bet with such-and-such a hand.

This is the bind, though. For every article I read, and every piece of advice I get, I feel as though that there is a concept I need to grasp first before I can 'get it'.

My past has shown me that I can be horribly slow and unintuitive until I get the very basics, then it seems my brain can kick in and start extrapolating. I haven't got there yet.

It is too late tonight now and so I will rummage around for the right article tomorrow. Is the next concept I need to grasp how to work out someone's range?

Any pointers to good articles on this forum or elsewhere are welcomed. I will look at all of them and I am pretty sure at some point one of them will lift a veil and I will take off again! But please trust me, I am not being lazy here. I am reading and reading and re-reading. I'll probably get me a coaching session too, sometime soonish. And I am going to keep on reading and playing until the light does start dawning.



Oh, and I just updated my operation banner. Exactly 500 hands: half-way. An appropriate point to feel the way I feel!

[binky bee]

Having slept on it, I think the veil is lifting.

I have moved from playing my own hand to being vaguely aware of what the villains might have.

Now I need to start working out what I think they have. I need some exercises. With Hand Converter I can make some exercises. Play, record, review. But review specifically to working over putting different villains on a range. Expect some posts in the Beginners' Circle!

[jyms]

Watch videos with the sound down and try to see what you think villain has

[binky bee]

Watch videos with the sound down and try to see what you think villain has

Great idea!

So how to put a range on someone's hand?

Is it as simple as this; based on what I know he would do what he just did with any of these hands? He raised aggressively, so something strong. A weak raise may indicate low pair or low suited connectors.

And if it is based on what I know, I worry about pot odds and how villain may be applying those when I've worked the dratted things out for myself!

This is hard!!

I'm going to set myself a couple of hand histories as exercises for lunch at work tomorrow. Then post my stumbling assessments of villain's ranges. Then I'm going to re-read coaching notes, get back to my complete basics and have a session tomorrow night focussed on enjoying the game!

[DoubleJ]

Hi Binks,

1st - i luv this Op and your attitude!

So how to put a range on someone's hand?

Have you got any tracking software? This'd help a lot, esp when you start multi-tabling

...I worry about pot odds and how villain may be applying those

at 2NL? they won't be. seriously.

[binky bee]

Hi Binks,

1st - i luv this Op and your attitude!



Have you got any tracking software? This'd help a lot, esp when you start multi-tabling



at 2NL? they won't be. seriously.

Thanks fella!

I don't have any tracking software, though I have just started looking into it. Is it a case of getting it when you have the minerals to use it, or does the software help you get the minerals in the firstplace?

I keep trying to remember that they are all supposed to be feeble at 2NL! And to keep my own game nice and basic...

[DoubleJ]

Thanks fella!

Prego

Is it a case of getting it when you have the minerals to use it, or does the software help you get the minerals in the first place?

Minerals not required. The big 3 (Holdem Manager, PokerTracker and PokerOffice) all do 30 day free trials, and i think they all do offers with affiliated sites where you can 'earn' the software licence by playing.

Getting a HUD will likely be another of those 'veil lifting' moments...

I keep trying to remember that they are all supposed to be feeble at 2NL!

Well, not all... some PokerGods do play there; Abandon all hope if you ever see BlackRain79 at one of your tables.

And to keep my own game nice and basic...

Aye. Position, Initiative and the power of the cBet = bye bye 2NL

[binky bee]

Sessions 6 and 7

224 hands dealt

Started at $62.63
Finished on $62.48
Loss $0.15 = 7.5x bb

Hero status = Sober, session 6 and a bit squiffy in session 7


I am bad person.

What did I do with all that good advice I received? Well, let's just say that discipline escaped me. I think for session 6 it was that massive sense of frustration from trying to run before I can walk. So I shan't run. I shall walk.

I haven't posted any hands, which I shall probably remedy at the weekend. But session 6 was characterised by extreme loose and aggressive play (by other people - not me!!) and I found that difficult to handle. I should have been more patient, I thought when I looked back over the HH's. Not much came up on the flops; well, kid, that's the way it's going to go sometimes. Tempted then to play differently to make something happen? Sure - I made something happen a couple of times and it wasn't what I wanted. Not at all.

I will learn. I will learn, I will!

But I do think for all that frustration that I did learn something. For a start I am being too hard on myself. With all of the hands I played, most of them were to plan. Only a few were off piste.

And in trying to read the ranges of peoples' cards I was often thwarted by crazy betting. But then I started to think, if I am at least broadly right about my reading, or at least applying the right reasoning, and it does not make sense, then they are not fairly representing their hands. Or, to put it another way, they are either bluffing or guessing their way through the game. Maybe I was even right.

I think that veil is lifting. Slowly, perhaps, but it is.

Session 7 was a far more carefree affair and much shorter. Needless to say the losses of session 6 (which weren't bad, to be honest) were almost made up for in session 7. That is a bad lesson and I will be an even badder person if I pay heed to it, lest it be 'you were lucky that time, binks'.

So, the next post will be something like;

Played solid. Looked back over my hands. Made no mistakes. Stuck to the plan.

If it isn't, flame me.

Oh, and I am going to take a look at Poker Tracker now thanks to the kind advice of others on this and other threads. I am looking forward to some greater insight.

[binky bee]

Sessions 8 and 9

Total 1,000 or more hands dealt - operation concluded!

Started at $62.48
Finished on $62.77
Gain $0.29 = 14.5x bb


Total result for something in excess of 1,000 hands:

Started at $60.00
Finished on $62.77
Gain $2.77 = 138.5x bb

Probably a bit more than a buy-in for the first 1,000 hands.


What have I learned?

My discipline is lacking and that will be the focus of the next operation.

Looking back over my hand histories I can see that here and there I am still drawn into a bet that was simply not justified and way too big. About one such hand per session, typically.

Now, looking at my charts and stuff and removing that single idiot-hand, my results would have been way better. So, there is a clear objective for the next operation; stay away from the big bets unless I am really confident!

At the risk of embarrassing myself, this is the last 'hand of shame':


[1] The Hand of Shame

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($0.41)
MP2 ($0.97)
CO ($2.07)
binky bee (Button) ($2.50)
SB ($1.83)
BB ($3.53)
UTG ($0.85)
UTG+1 ($2.01)

Preflop: binky bee is Button with J, 10
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, binky bee bets $0.10, BB raises to $0.40, 1 fold, binky bee calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.83) 9, Q, 2 (3 players)
BB bets $0.80, binky bee raises to $2.10 (All-In), BB calls $1.30

Turn: ($5.03) 7 (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.03) 3 (3 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.03 | Rake: $0.18

BB showed [Ac As] and won ($4.85) with a pair of Aces

Why did I go all-in? Sure, I was looking at a straight draw. I had three suited cards as well. But the villain had made confident bets, he had something worth it. Was it worth calling BB to see if I got a straight (which I did not, of course)?


But then I also played two hands that were very similar, and this is one of them:

[2] binky bee kicks bottom sometimes

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($1.47)
BB ($2.55)
binky bee (UTG) ($2.04)
UTG+1 ($2.24)
MP1 ($0.84)
MP2 ($1.51)
MP3 ($4.35)
CO ($3.02)
Button ($2)

Preflop: binky bee is UTG with K, K
binky bee bets $0.08, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.08, MP2 calls $0.08, MP3 calls $0.08, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.35) 5, K, 3 (4 players)
binky bee bets $0.34, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $0.68, MP3 calls $0.68, binky bee raises to $1.96 (All-In), MP2 calls $0.75 (All-In), MP3 calls $1.28

Turn: ($5.70) 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.70) 3 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.70 | Rake: $0.20

binky bee showed [Ks Kh] and won ($5.50) with a full house, Kings full of Threes

A very similar hand saw me with pocket 7's and a 7 flopped in with 2 lower cards which were not connected and not suited. I believed I had the nuts, went all-in again, and the (single) villain called me and the pot was mine.


Other than those three hands losses were largely restricted to the blinds. Gains were few and often not very rewarding (stealing the pot with AA in my pockets was particularly galling!).

So, again, I am being hard on myself. I can do it. I only have to hold myself back from the rash big bet that only happens once a session.

If I can crack on with that, my results should get better.

I am also starting to get a small feel for putting a range on people, pot odds and even implied and reverse implied odds, though those ideas are all a bit vaguely applied at the moment, I can see them helping.


The next great development in my game has been three-tabling. The last session was entirely on three tables and wow, what a difference that makes!

Suddenly having a range that gets me putting money in only about 8% of the time was still leaving me with some action. I was not tempted into any more big, rash bets. Losses of the previous session were slowly and systematically recovered.

Poker Tracker, the last development of this operation, made all of that a lot easier.

Right now I am looking at bonus whoring, possibly on Poker770. My only reservation about them is there flash plug-in thingy for the Mac. Yeuch!

[DoubleJ]

Hello Binky

Re The Hand of Shame:

Do you have PokerStove? if not, download it here: PokerStove: Poker Software and Analysis. it's free

If you analyse your shove it is actually +EV.

I think the mistake you made on this hand was calling a 3Bet preflop, and seeing the flop with position but no initiative.

[Keith]

hand of shame would have been avoided if you had folded to the 3bet pre. 2nl 3bets will be skewed heavily towards AA KK AK QQ which all have TJs dominated.

as for the flash client , thats the price you pay for a mac or you have to start forking out for mac software that allows you to run windows . At least you won't be risking any cash up front at poker770 and it lets you try out that mac client before you do deposit.

[binky bee]

hand of shame would have been avoided if you had folded to the 3bet pre. 2nl 3bets will be skewed heavily towards AA KK AK QQ which all have TJs dominated.

as for the flash client , thats the price you pay for a mac or you have to start forking out for mac software that allows you to run windows . At least you won't be risking any cash up front at poker770 and it lets you try out that mac client before you do deposit.

I see your point re. the 3bet pre, Keith. I didn't do well on that hand, did I?!

As for flash client - I can probably play on my Windows laptop, mostly and put up with flash when my wife is using it to play EverQuest. Perhaps I could keep a small bank roll on Poker Stars for this!

[binky bee]

Hello Binky

Re The Hand of Shame:

Do you have PokerStove? if not, download it here: PokerStove: Poker Software and Analysis. it's free

If you analyse your shove it is actually +EV.

I think the mistake you made on this hand was calling a 3Bet preflop, and seeing the flop with position but no initiative.

I do have PokerStove - just starting to try and work it out and stuff!!

Pleased that you think my shove was +EV - need to look at that and see if I can understand why.

But I agree with Keith, I should have folded pre.

[Keith]

i suggest that you leave all your stars roll on stars initially. just grind that free money first but include your stars roll in your total bankroll for when to move up. if you withdraw from stars and deposit on 770 , the initial bonuses you clear will be the bonuses from the deal. only once you clear those will you start to clear your first deposit bonus. Your first deposit bonus may well expire before you finish clearing those other bonuses.

This also then gives you the advantage of still being able to play when your mrs is playing everquest and any increase in your stars roll means that when you finish clearing that bonus, you can withdraw from stars and since its a 200% bonus ,you will have a bigger first deposit bonus to clear or use the stars money at another room .

[Imthenewfish]

gl with poker op, really try not to focus on results for sessions that were only a few hundred hands because you have really little control if you win or lose over that really small sample

[binky bee]

i suggest that you leave all your stars roll on stars initially. just grind that free money first but include your stars roll in your total bankroll for when to move up. if you withdraw from stars and deposit on 770 , the initial bonuses you clear will be the bonuses from the deal. only once you clear those will you start to clear your first deposit bonus. Your first deposit bonus may well expire before you finish clearing those other bonuses.

This also then gives you the advantage of still being able to play when your mrs is playing everquest and any increase in your stars roll means that when you finish clearing that bonus, you can withdraw from stars and since its a 200% bonus ,you will have a bigger first deposit bonus to clear or use the stars money at another room .

Hmmm, thanks Keith. I probably have enough wriggle-room to throw some money at Poker770 without a withdrawal from Poker Stars. Hell, I may be asset poor, but I am income rich!

[Keith]

VIP POKER CLUB REWARDS AND POINT CALCULATOR - POKER770

have a play with the points calculator to find out how many tables you'd have to play ,and for how long in order to generate the 6000poinmts you'd need to get the first 70$ bonusin the 3 month deadline. i make it roughly 30 hours a week on 4 tables.I've no idea how accurate that calculator is though.

just checked the titan one for my todays play and it wasn't too far out

[Sasquach991]

Update?