QQ Out of Position

[MRWN8R]

How do you play your QQ even JJ out of position for a raise?

Reraise? Smooth call and see the flop?

What about with a raiser and several callers?

What key elements are you thinking about or looking for?

The range your opponent is raising and the range he's calling with.

[MRWN8R]

Understandable. What if you have no information on said opponent?

What would you say is your optimum strategy?

[AFchung]

i play 2NL, and the players are so bad that i just shove QQ. sure they'll have KK/AA sometimes, but more often than not they have JJ-, AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ

also the disadvantage of being OOP is taken away when we get it in PF

[martindcx1e]

i play 2NL, and the players are so bad that i just shove QQ. sure they'll have KK/AA sometimes, but more often than not they have JJ-, AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ

also the disadvantage of being OOP is taken away when we get it in PF

umm do you play with like 20bb's? if not then this is definitely not optimum. don't do this mrwn8r.

Understandable. What if you have no information on said opponent?

What would you say is your optimum strategy?

If we have no information we have to get some information. What position is he in? What position are you in?

OOP could mean you're in the SB and he's on the button. Or you could be BB and he could be UTG. Completely different scenarios.

Is he a full stack or a short stack?

Say he's on the button and it's folded to him. You're in the SB with QQ. Insta-3b. His range is very wide and this is 3betting for value. He is also likely to call because he has position and he may or may not realize you're going to 3b him with a wider range of hands against a steal.

[Fnord]

Call, let him bluff off his money.

[yourfather]

I used to always 3 bet QQ ip, I started flatting more recently and am winning alot of big pots as the pf raiser is never giving me credit for a big hand.

[Muzzard]

even vs an unknown we need more info.

a) Effective stack sizes?
b) 6max or FR?

[Stacks]

It's all situational dependent. Your position in relation to his position matters in the sense that your range, and his range should be different.

His tendencies and how he will react to all your possible options is another big factor. If he is only 3betting for value, say QQ+, AK, then we can find a fold with QQ, JJ as, not only are we a dog to his range, but we are also OOP and well that sucks.

If he is 3bet bluffs then we can decide whether we want to call and play poker OOP or 4b. If we are 4betting we need to also be 4b bluffing or we allow him to play his hands rather perfect against us by tossing all his bluffs and only calling, or 5b shoving his better hands.

So it does boil down to what our opponents range is, and what his response will be to our actions. If by 4betting we get him to felt worse hands like AQ, AJ, JJ, TT, 99, etc (which is unlikely in FR games without history), then we can 4b for value and call a 5b shove. If he is 3bet bluffing, but folding all those hands then I perfer to call with hands like QQ, JJ that I wouldn't know what to do if I 4b and he shoved.

Stacks: this is for a raise, not when you raise and get 3b

[Stacks]

oh shit... didn't realize that. Well above is how I would look at facing a 3b with those hands.


With QQ, JJ if you are likely to be in a HU pot in position then in most cases just call. By raising you narrow villains range to hands that you don't fair too well against, plus you will have a hard time deciding how to react to a 4b from villain.

If there is a raise, and multiple callers, then I will 3bet as our hand, while it does have set odds, loses overpair strength in a mutliway pot (also because of all the dead money).

yeah I 3b if there's callers obv

[MRWN8R]

i play 2NL, and the players are so bad that i just shove QQ. sure they'll have KK/AA sometimes, but more often than not they have JJ-, AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ

also the disadvantage of being OOP is taken away when we get it in PF

umm do you play with like 20bb's? if not then this is definitely not optimum. don't do this mrwn8r.

Yeah, I wouldn't think so. I generally buy in with 100bb.