Bluffers and Stations: Attacking 101

[Robb]

This post is more for me than you. I'm learning read-dependent play after not so gentle encouragement from posts/threads by guys like TJ, Drew and Spoon. You can beat NL10 with ABC autoplay. I want to pwn it.

Things I've learned about attacking the fish:

1. You can have a very solid read on someone who's horrible, but be unable to take their stack.
2. Attack light, and you will often pay with your stack.
3. Patience is a virtue.

The two villains that tweak my impatience most are the maniacs and the stations. I just KNOW I'm laying down hands that are better than the maniacs and checking to the stations which let's them draw out on me. But betting with air doesn't work against these types. I know. I've tried it.

Situation 1: maniac with 80 hands and 80/35/7 stats. I 3-bet him successfully once but have to lay down two other hands (all 3 AQ+), one to rr pre and one to cbet/rr post. I mix it up a couple of other times, breaking even. I know I can get this guy's stack, but I'm folding to his rr's and 3-bets. He thinks he can run over me.

A month ago, I would have been all-in with pocket 3's and probably lost my stack to A4 sooted, or some crap like that. I play my game, and Hand #1 (below) arrives about 40 hands later.

Situation 2: loose-passive station with 35/10/1 stats. I've cbet him twice with decent hands, but it takes dynamite to blast him off a hand. I cool it, and take the suggested line: take him to value town. I fold AK after a cbet on a board that's 2 2 5 to his cr. A station cr? Jeez. I cool it again, and Hand #2 arrives about 60 hands later.


Hand 1

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($7.86)
UTG 1 ($21.47)
CO ($20.38)
BTN ($9.85)
SB ($9.01)
Hero ($9.96)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is BB T T
2 folds, CO raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.1, CO calls $0.75

Flop: 3 2 3 ($2.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25

Turn: 6 ($6.75, 2 players)
Hero goes all-in $6.61, CO calls $6.61

River: Q ($19.97, 2 players)

Final Pot: $19.97
Hero shows: T T
CO shows: 9 K

Hero wins $18.98 ( won $9.02 )
CO lost -$9.96


Hand 2

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.94)
Hero ($21.25)
CO ($1.60)
BTN ($3.60)
SB ($10.29)
BB ($26.75)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is UTG 1 T T
UTG calls $0.1, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, BB calls $0.35, UTG calls $0.35

Flop: Q J 9 ($1.4, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.4, BB calls $1.4, UTG folds

Turn: K ($4.2, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.75, BB calls $2.75

River: A ($9.7, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9.7, BB calls $9.7

Final Pot: $29.1
Hero shows: T T
BB shows: K J

Hero wins $27.65 ( won $13.35 )
UTG lost -$0.45
BB lost -$14.30


I believe my reads dictated the lines I took against these obvious fish. What I hope the newbies get out of this is understanding what patience means when there's a big whale-donk at the table. Attacking thinly is +EV, but it's not for the feint of heart.

What I'd like to hear from the veteran FTR's is some analysis of my thinking and play.

Hand 1, I'm ahead of his range by a long shot and got a call pre, so I'm 90% sure I'm ahead postflop. A2 and other hands are possible with this guy, as are 22 and 33, but they're a small fraction of his range. Turn and river are blanks, so I'm firing with an estimate of, say, 80% chance or better I'm ahead. Thoughts?

Hand 2, I'm just loving the drive to value town. Again, I'm very confident I'm ahead, but I know there are hands in his range that can stack me. But I'm pretty much committed after the flop and I'm stacking off (if needed) after the turn. The Ace doesn't bother me on the river, but it's the 3rd diamond. I cringe, and pull the trigger. He's a station, by god, and I've the nut straight.

[jyms]

Hand 1 I love, so many cards scare away the action on the river if he's playing overcards or a mid pair.

Hand 2 I tend to put the station on the FD 90% of the time. I think your better to bet a little more on the turn and check behind/value bet on the river. Don't forget that your both 200BB deep and it is very hard to not give him his implied odds to draw to that flush if your shoving the river. As a matter of reference, look at the line by villain in hand 1, seems eerily similar (other than position) to that of hand two in that he called preflop raises and both flop and turn bets. Using your position in hand 2 means not paying off the flush that they love to play at these stakes.

[Robb]

Hand 2 I tend to put the station on the FD 90% of the time. I think your better to bet a little more on the turn and check behind/value bet on the river.

Pot the turn because he's a station. If I pot the turn, then checking behind is best since any real bet will pot commit me. As played, maybe a 1/3 pot v-bet on the river allows me to get extra profit from station tendencies but still deny him implied odds when the flush hits by folding to a cr. OK. This makes sense.

Using your position in hand 2 means not paying off the flush that they love to play at these stakes.

I'll add one thing: he had rr'd twice and cr'd once in the 100 hands I'd seen during the session. Despite being a station, he seemed capable of FPS or aggressive play (FPS is my guess - he sucked). I decided I was felting the river to a cr, so I shoved first.

But that doesn't make sense, since it allows him to "induce a bluff" from me. Or profit from his naturally passive tendencies and my aggression. I see now why I was cringing when I shoved the river, and why you're line works out to better EV in the long run.

[pgil]

I think in hand 2, if he is an obvious station, I don't mind playing for stacks even when the flush hits. There are so many more 2pr broadway hands than there are flushdraw hands that he could have here. and stations don't ever fold 2 pair.

I think that 3 streets of full pot would be best here, maybe even an overbet somewhere along the way to get full stacks in. obviously with 2 flush draws out there the turn would be the best spot for an overbet.