Flatting AQo

[WeldPhaser]

over 100 hands villian's vpip:20 pfr:17 , about 20 hands earlier he really started opening up & splashing around a bit. maybe tilted on another table, so I think my first mistake here is not 3betting pre-fl' right? but I guess I'm worried I may already be behind because he's been so tight. after the flop, it feels like he's barreling. basically I'm caught off guard by his recent aggressiveness, and I don't wanna be bullied off w/ his A9-AJ here. Should I be Folding the turn here, or calling him down. Thanks for you feedback guys.


Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($5.81)
Button ($2.85)
SB ($2.06)
BB ($7.64)
UTG ($7.70)
MP ($11.57)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q
1 fold, MP bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.85) 7, 4, A (2 players)
MP bets $0.57, Hero calls $0.57

Turn: ($1.99) 6 (2 players)
MP bets $1.33, Hero raises to $4.89 (All-In), MP calls $3.56

River: ($11.77) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $11.77 | Rake: $0.78

Results below:

Spoiler: Show

MP had A, 4 (two pair, Aces and fours).
Hero had A, Q (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: MP won $10.99

[BorisTheSpider]

Whether to 3bet pre or not depends on if you think he's tilting hard enough to call with worse and still get a lot of money in on an A or Q high board. Generally, unless he was going really nuts, I'd suggest flatting here is just fine and optimal even if you think he might call preflop with worse, it'll probably slow him down postflop if he hits an ace and you 3bet pre.

Why do you jam the turn? If you think he's steaming, much better to just station him down here. When you jam, you just isolate yourself with better and kill any value you'd have got from worse, but if you just call him down he might well bet 3 streets with a worse ace.

Incidentally, I'd caution somewhat against drawing conclusions about whether someone is tilting when you see them splashing around _unless_ you've seen some junk shown down, it's perfectly possible he was just running hot - it's not that uncommon to have 10 playable hands dealt in 20. That said, you do have to draw a line somewhere - the other day for example I got it in preflop with JQs against 23s when a fish open-jammed only the 2nd hand in a row, so I'm not saying it's always bad to "over-read" like this, but unless he's really going crazy and jamming everything, it can just be a hot run of cards.

[WeldPhaser]

Why do you jam the turn? If you think he's steaming, much better to just station him down here. When you jam, you just isolate yourself with better and kill any value you'd have got from worse, but if you just call him down he might well bet 3 streets with a worse ace.

I'm not sure why I stuff the turn here, Maybe nerves. When I Flat pre here, and The board is A-low rainbow. I think my perceived range is a lot of non Ace hands, So I just went blank and shoved the turn. I'll stick in there next time and let him keep betting..

I may have even folded the turn if he hadn't got so aggressive, Is that wrong here?

[OngBonga]

Jamming turn seems worse than folding imo. And I don't like folding.

Just call turn and probably call river too.

[sil693]

Were you shoving the turn for value or as a bluff? Neither really makes much sense imo. Also you say he'd been more aggressive recently - had you seen him get to showdown at all? Or are you presuming he's now playing a bit looser?

I'd call the turn here, we let him bet his weaker aces, double barrel if he's that aggro (although this isn't really the best card to double barrel, and he is OOP).

If the river was blank and he fires again I think its a tough spot as I can't see him showing up with less than AK/AQ - UNLESS I'd seen him show up with junk recently I'd probably ditch it to 3 bets.

NOTE: I'm back playing after about 2 years away from poker.

[Fnord]

He probably just caught some starting hands or found some spots to attack.

[The Bean Counter]

Pre and flop seems okay, call turn and fold to a triple barrel on most rivers, depending on how often villain triple barrels (I find information on flop, turn and river cbets useful on my HUD). Jamming the turn achieves nothing as villain only calls with hands that beat you but you extract no further value from weaker holdings.

One thing that you may want to change is your starting stack. Playing with less than a full stack won't help you develop your skills and really restricts your options on a hand against a wide variety of opponents (for instance, you cannot bluff, float or call down as comfortably). You're also missing tons of value against the fish.

[Wikkiwikki]

I like 3betting pre in position here. It will likely let you pot control later because you will mostly be checked to on later streets. You fold to a 4 bet shove and if he flats the 3bet it would look something like this:

FLOP he checks - you value bet and he calls
TURN he checks - you check back for pot control
RIVER he makes some kind of smallish suck bet and you call

If he ever goes nuts and re raises or anything you can just lay it down.
You almost always want to be the captain. Calling down is just letting him take you to Value Town. One pair hands should be played to small pots, if a guy is trying to get a bunch of money in you need to just let them go. By 3 betting and cbetting you give your A-Q a decent shot at the pot but need to let it go if he keeps sticking around because the pot is getting to big for a 1 pair hand.

[Wikkiwikki]

Ok after watching this again I'm not sure. I would normally play it like my above post because I think it mitigates the risk and still gives a decent shot at the pot. However, I'm clearly not taking advantage of weaker aces with that line.

Nikachu Cardrunners Training - YouTube

Would love to hear more discussion on this as its a pretty tough spot.

[Imthenewfish]

3betting is turning our hand into a bluff. Both calling and 3b'ing might be +EV but calling is more +EV. Wtf is a captain? Why would you want to run over the table if you'd be giving money away in the process? Calling down doesn't actually let him take us to value town. You have the option to fold anywhere in the hand.

Also please try to get out of the "top pair isn't a hand i want to stack" mindset

[Wikkiwikki]

3betting is turning our hand into a bluff. Both calling and 3b'ing might be +EV but calling is more +EV. Wtf is a captain? Why would you want to run over the table if you'd be giving money away in the process? Calling down doesn't actually let him take us to value town. You have the option to fold anywhere in the hand.

Also please try to get out of the "top pair isn't a hand i want to stack" mindset

3betting is not turning your hand into a bluff, if he 4 bets your beat and can fold, he's not 4 betting with worse. Also you can win the hand by betting, but there are also hands like medium pairs that might call that you don't mind staying in against.

By captain i meant the aggressor in the hand, the one doing the betting not the calling.

Calling down only to fold later in the hand is exactly the definition of value town.

[Imthenewfish]

I don't really think arguing here is productive like at all, but I'll elaborate if you actually want me to. I'd be fine with you just wanting to keep thinking the way you are too.

[bjsaust]

I don't see any reason to 3bet AQ pre, and shoving the turn seems retarded. Try to have reasons for doing things rather than mashing buttons. This is a great spot to call a lot in the whole hand.

3betting is not turning your hand into a bluff, if he 4 bets your beat and can fold, he's not 4 betting with worse

The fact that he only 4 bets better is an argument for having a bluff hand when we 3bet here, not a reason to 3bet a good hand.

[Wikkiwikki]

ok I am retarded, I understand now why calling is way better pre-flop as you get to play against a much wider range. I think you have to call the turn and hope you check down then river.

[WeldPhaser]

By 3 betting and cbetting you give your A-Q a decent shot at the pot but need to let it go if he keeps sticking around because the pot is getting to big for a 1 pair hand.

I'm glad you mention TPTK type hands, and the pot getting to big. where should I draw a line, a 3bet flop? C/R? on a A high dry board in this case?

[bjsaust]

You act second on the flop...