As6s worth as much as As2s

[Tasha]

It seems there is a point of view that a hand of Ax2x is worth the same as Ax6x even though the latter has a higher kicker, and that Ax5x can sometimes be better because the straight draws are better.
Is that a reasonable idea?

[spoonitnow]

 328,762,368  games     0.281 secs     1,169,972,839  games/sec

Board: 
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	57.452%  	39.89% 	17.56% 	     131140044 	 57739044.00   { A6s, A6o }
Hand 1: 	42.548%  	24.99% 	17.56% 	      82144236 	 57739044.00   { A5s, A5o }




 328,762,368  games     0.266 secs     1,235,948,751  games/sec

Board: 
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	56.001%  	34.53% 	21.48% 	     113506896 	 70604760.00   { A5s, A5o }
Hand 1: 	43.999%  	22.52% 	21.48% 	      74045952 	 70604760.00   { A2s, A2o }

[Penneywize]

This probably has no relation whatsoever to the ..... question you were asking, but there are situations in multi-table tournaments where you would be correct to push A5s and A4s but not AJo, nor any suited aces from A9s to A6s.

Specifically:
- Far from the money
- We are first to act (UTG) and our stack has a CSI (or M) of 7; meaning our stack has exactly 7 orbits worth of blinds and antes left in it.

We would push A5s but not A6s (or those other hands I mentioned)

[settecba]

This probably has no relation whatsoever to the ..... question you were asking, but there are situations in multi-table tournaments where you would be correct to push A5s and A4s but not AJo, nor any suited aces from A9s to A6s.

Specifically:
- Far from the money
- We are first to act (UTG) and our stack has a CSI (or M) of 7; meaning our stack has exactly 7 orbits worth of blinds and antes left in it.

We would push A5s but not A6s (or those other hands I mentioned)

Why?

[Imthenewfish]

Why?

A5s can make 1 straight LDFO

[jyms]

Why?

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

    

   308,214,720  games     0.359 secs   858,536,824  games/sec

Board:   
Dead:  

      equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     69.935%      69.23%     00.70%          213376656       2172750.00   { 99+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1:     30.065%      29.36%     00.70%           90492564       2172750.00   { A6s }


---  

   308,214,720  games     0.391 secs   788,272,941  games/sec

Board:  
Dead:  

      equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     68.533%      67.75%     00.78%          208824852       2404278.00   { 99+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1:     31.467%      30.69%     00.78%           94581312       2404278.00   { A5s }

[Stacks]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  12,585,434,400  games    19.812 secs   635,243,004  games/sec

Board: 
Dead:  

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     85.204%      84.93%     00.27%        10689050508      34206936.00   { AA }
Hand 1:     14.796%      14.52%     00.27%         1827970020      34206936.00   { random }


---

[spoonitnow]

Why?

Because of our equity against their calling ranges. It's kind of weird how it works out, but basically if they're never calling with a hand that AJo dominates then AJo < A5s because of the suitedness, even though they make a similar number of straights.

As for the specific tournament situation mentioned I think Penney may be a little off but, here is a link for proof that the [game theory] optimal shoving range for UTG when you're far away from the money and you have an M of 7 with no antes is {99+ ATs+ A5s AJo+ KTs+ QTs+}.

[donkfish]

lol @ 6 being a "kicker"

[Imthenewfish]

lol @ 6 being a "kicker"

gets counterfeited too often to really matter imo

[EasyPoker]

gets counterfeited too often to really matter imo

lol aint that the point he was making

[Imthenewfish]

lol aint that the point he was making

ldfo i was just agreeing with him lol

[Penneywize]

FWIW I just pulled that info from Kill Everyone's push fold charts.

[Imthenewfish]

FWIW I just pulled that info from Kill Everyone's push fold charts.

WP sir