Pokerstove query

[EasyPoker]

When using 'Stove midway through a hand, is it accurate to use villain's PFR % even if, say, he didn't raise preflop?

I have been doing this, and it has helped me to make decisions, but I'm not sure that this is entirely the right way.

[JKDS]

no

[!Luck]

Why are using poker stove during a hand?

[EasyPoker]

Why not?

I've regularly heard of people using it mid-hand as well as in their analysis.

[!Luck]

How many tables do you play easy poker?

[EasyPoker]

Varies. Atm I'm trying out mass-tabling (so anywhere betweenn 8 and 12) but usually no more than 4.

Only reason I'm mass-tabling is to clear a bonus, might I add.

[JR9477]

Is there any way you could rephrase your question so it makes more sense?

[spoonitnow]

No. Stats don't correlate directly to preflop ranges.

[!Luck]

Also remember that someone's PFR could be the same 10% but include very different things.

That's 10% [88+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,AJo+,KQo]
This is also 10% [22+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+]

[jaytoi]

Yeah. The way stove does ranges on % is pretty generalized- some people will inevitably favour different hands over others. I just saw someone who was 8/6 and pushed all in AJ pre, lol.

shortstacking scum

[DJJunkPauds]

I have occationally used PokerStove mid hand. It's not that weird a thing to do.

[EthanH1]

guys any chance of elaberating on how you transfer a pre flop stat into a range then?? i have upto 2K hands on some people but still have trouble putting them on a range as they have'nt sown down alot.

the best way to go form vpip% and pre% to a real range would be a great help. i know spoon has said some things on this.

thanks

[DJJunkPauds]

guys any chance of elaberating on how you transfer a pre flop stat into a range then?? i have upto 2K hands on some people but still have trouble putting them on a range as they have'nt sown down alot.

the best way to go form vpip% and pre% to a real range would be a great help. i know spoon has said some things on this.

thanks

The way I do it is, there's about 6 or 7 different player types I come accross, and I know roughly what each type plays. Sometimes I'll come across a looser or tighter version of the player, and add or take away a hand, but basically it's the same.

Imagine a TAGG running 17/15 opens under the gun, I'm putting him on any pair AJ+, KQ. *Maybe* 98s-JTs, but probably not. A TAGG running 22/19 in the same spot has the same plus AT, KJs, and the suited connectors are more of a probably than a maybe. A good tagg I'd adjusted again based on how I think they're adjusting to table conditions.

The only times you can really begin to just plug in a PFR to Stove for a range is with the passive players, or for non-polarised 3bettors. Someone running 30/10, with no positional awareness, is probably raising about the top 10% of hands, depending what you consider the top 10% to be, or rather, what they consider it to be. { 88+, ATs+, KJs+, ATo+, KJo+ } is a resonable range for this player, but take copious notes, because when you see him raise with small pairs, you know to adjust his range, taking out some of the big card combos, and adding the small pairs. { 22+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo } is a resonable range for such a player.

Someone with a 3bet % of 2.5 is probably re-raising with QQ+,AKs,AKo, and just about nothing else. Someone with a 3bet of 7, is harder to understand. You need to take notes on this player (as well as every player at all your tables - you never know when some seemingly insignificant detail will make you money in the future). If you see this player 3bet with KQ, it's fair to assume they are 3betting for what they think of as value. { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo } is a reasonable assumption. If you see such a player 3bet and show down a suited connector, then you can assume they have a polarized range, and be less inclined to call their 3bets with hands like AQ, which will always be behind when you play a big pot, post flop. If you haven't seen any telling show downs, then you have to start making assumptions. A player running 20/18/4.0 with a 3bet of 6, I'm assuming they're polarized. I'll be highly suspicious of this player when they 3bet my steals, often countering with a 4bet. A player running 35/15/2.0 with a 3bet of 6, I'm putting them mainly on big cards, and stronger pairs. I'm only 4betting value, and calling a lot more this players 3bets for value, with AK, AQ, maybe TT exclusively for value (as in I don't care about making a set).

In the end, all a PFR% is is what percentage of the hands a player was dealt that they raised with. You have to put the whole picture together from stats, and reads, to make best guesses about what's in that range. There are certain key tells that are more useful to note down than others. You want to look for things that contradict the notes, and record how your opponent behaves when she's at the edge of her range. Someone cold calls with AK? That's a valuable note to have. You can get a tight read on them when they make a 3bet. Someone 3bets with AQ? Again, you know you're not out kicked when you flop a pair of aces with a queen kicker, against this opponent, when you've been cold called.

You'll get to know which are the most valuable things to note down. Pretty much everybody has set-mining pairs in there cold calling range, but some people do call you with big cards, and some people don't. Some people do call you with ace rage, and some people don't. 22-TT is about 4% of hands, and so when you see someone with this number for their preflop cold calling stat, you can be very comfortable assuming the ace hasn't hit them. Someone who cold calls 8% of the time has pairs nearly always, but is the other 4% suited connectors, or big cards? Maybe it's ace rag? You'll know to pay attention to this, after you've played with Stove, and taken mental (or perhaps written) notes of what percentage represents what range.

Also, remember that just because a player did something one time, doesn't mean they'll do it again. The fishier your opponents, the less likely they are to have figured out a strategy yet, or to even have one, and there for you're going to find it hard to figure a tendency, when one has yet to form.

In summary: stats good, notes way more valuable.

[Roller]

I have occationally used PokerStove mid hand. It's not that weird a thing to do.

I would have never even thought of suggesting using it mid hand.
It's free, I guess something is better then nothing.

Nothing weird about that .....

[baudib]

that's a great post.

[EthanH1]

DJJunkPauds, thanks very much for your reply. since spoon has done his 8 or 9 part serises i have been realy trying to get an understanding of players ranges, but strugling to go from hud stats to a postional ranges.

i understand notes are realy important to each person you play against, and am also finding this hard to get writen down so it will make sense and be a help in ferther hands.

as you say time helps with this and so does reading here on FTR.

again thanks.