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villains wierd line

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  1. #1

    Default villains wierd line

    villain is like 30/0/0 over 15 hands (yeah yea just sat down). Also has a baby pic as avatar. Anyway the line looks like strength to me. My hand has showdown value, but enough to call turn bet? seems like an odd line for any other queen and even a set to take.. opinions?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP3 ($10.10)
    CO ($6.86)
    Button ($9.86)
    SB ($2.36)
    BB ($9.75)
    Hero (UTG) ($5)
    UTG+1 ($5.35)
    MP1 ($8.40)
    MP2 ($4.03)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
    Hero bets $0.20, 7 folds, BB calls $0.15

    Flop: ($0.42) 8, 9, Q (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.30, BB calls $0.30

    Turn: ($1.02) 4 (2 players)
    BB bets $0.45, Hero: ??

    edit: my yea yea up top looked rude, help is def appreciated haha
  2. #2
    15 hands isn't much of a sample to comment on the stats. Bet more on the flop; it is a little drawish. For the turn decision, you should put the villian on a range and calculate the EV of the play.
  3. #3
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    I made this neat little gif a week or two ago because I need something to make this line stick out in your mind now and in the future: "Put your opponent on a goddamn range!" I did a Super Mario Bros 3 version that I put on YouTube as well, it's a little different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xhOXd7NfP8

    The natural reply to my message is something like, "But I can't, I don't have any stats and even if I did I couldn't because I don't have any reads, and even if I did I couldn't because I'm not psychic, and even if I was I couldn't because of ________."

    The reason for that type of reply is almost always that you're scared of looking like an idiot in front of other people, and well I can't promise that you won't. But what I can promise is if you don't start by putting your opponent on a range then you can't get anywhere with figuring out what to do.

    So start with what you think his range is based on his preflop play, his flop play and his turn play (as well as your limited stats) and go from there. I'll come back and comment some more and help you with your range assignments and making sense of the hand later.
  4. #4
    im thinking position doesnt figure much into what this guy calls with
    since he is calling a lot already, its 5nl, and he has a baby pic.

    Im not going to be conservative here, ill use his 30% vpip...
    thats Axs, K5s+, all pp's, any two broadways, SC's, A5+, lots of stuff. can prol discount AA,KK

    he calls flop (8h9cQd) so range narrows...
    A8, A9, AQ, K8, K9, KQ, Q9+, 78, 89, 9T, JT, 88, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, 67

    turn comes 4c, he bets ~halfpot...
    4 wasnt in anything ive given him rangewise so was he slowplaying? weird way to slowplay
    i think it knocks anything that i beat out of the previous range though tbh, other than a spewy bluff
    which i lack reads and dont wanna give him credit for.

    so i should fold...


    this is the first time ive done a detailed range exercise like this.


    edit: i should mention i like the zelda gif much more than the baby jpeg.
  5. #5
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    This range seems reasonable, though there's going to be a bit of wiggle room because it's hard to know just which ~30% of hands he's going to have here and what hands he would 3-bet preflop because we don't have reads, etc. But I'll use the range you have provided for the analysis and show you how to discount certain hands and so on, and then explain why I would use a different range.

    On the flop he check/calls, so we're going to need to discount the strongest hands in his range. Let's say for the sake of having something to work with that he only plays {88-99} like this 1/3 of the time, {JTo, JTs} like this 1/4 of the time, and {Q9o, Q9s, 98o, 98s} like this 1/3 of the time. Also, we can just go ahead and say that he never has QQ since there is only 1 possible combination of it (QsQh), he will 3-bet it sometimes preflop, and he won't always play it like this on the flop.

    This is the part where I should probably show you how to discount combinations in PokerStove for the purposes of analysis, and since I have a little while before I have to be doing anything else, you're going to get some special treatment. To make this easier to follow along with, his starting range before I remove some combinations is JJ-88,AQs,A9s-A8s,KQs,K9s-K8s,Q9s+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AQo,A9o-A8o,KQo,K9o-K8o,Q9o+,JTo,T9o,98o,87o,76o and you can just copy/paste that into the Player 2 box.

    I'm half-asleep but here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQiGOeeY8bc

    Okay so what we've come up with is that we have something like 33% equity against his range on the turn, which if he was going all-in on the turn would probably be sufficient to make a +EV call (maybe breakeven-ish with the rake). However, he's not going all-in, and we'll likely have to face a river bet (especially the times we're behind) so if we were going to call we'd probably need to have some sort of implied odds like if we hit a Q or a K we could be sure of having the best hand most of the time, which is just not the case here. Instead we have a situation with reverse implied odds, meaning if we do hit one of our "outs", we're still going to be behind a lot of the time.

    Now here are some changes I would make to his range and why I would make them.

    He's going to show up with some random pair or random bluff here sometimes. It's not something you have to give him credit for before you can take it into account, it's just going to happen some portion of the time. He could be doing that with something like {T8, T9, J9} on some weird semi-bluff/value kind of thought process, or just have some random shit like KJ and is trying to pick off your c-bet, or have some other straight draw like 76 or T6s and be trying to use it as a semibluff, etc. There are a lot of hands he could do this with, and while he obviously won't be doing it with them 100% of the time, it's something we should account for. If we add {K9s, KTs, KJs, T9s, T8s, J9s, 76s} to his range to account for this, we have 48.6% equity, which makes it pretty close.

    Now obviously we don't know how often he's going to be doing this and with what hands he would be doing this, but we should try to account for it in at least a conservative way by adding some of the more obvious combinations he could do this with.

    Random thought, but if you've ever read the "Harrington on Hold'em" series, he perhaps jokingly calls this "Harrington's Law", meaning any given bet is always a bluff at least 10% of the time.

    Anyway, good work. Doing this type of stuff is what will help you get better faster and make lots of monies.
  6. #6
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Also get your ass in IRC.
  7. #7
    this is great thanks spoon. gona read it a couple times.

    also i am always in irc, martybizzle the resdient noob

    edit: for the record he had 9d4d
  8. #8
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Obv I meant at the moment, not like in the general sense. ldfo

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