A Lesson from Rocky 3: Illusions and Poker

[xpaand]

I was re-watching the whole Rocky series and found a hidden gem in Rocky 3 so I thought I'd share it with the BC. Rocky after the 2nd movie became the world champ and successfully defended his title for a long time. However, he gets defeated by Clubber Lang (Mr. T) because he didn't take his training seriously and he lived a life of glamour and glitz instead of training hard like he should; he lost the eye of the tiger (lol). When Apollo Creed and him team up to regain his title, Rocky can't seem to take the training seriously as if something inside is eating him up. While they're on the beach, Adrian questions what he's going through because "[Rocky]'s never quit anything since [Adrian] has known [him]." He goes on to explain his resentment towards his late coach Mick because he 'protected' him by only setting up fights with fighters who weren't very dangerous. Once the illusion of greatness was gone, the unbearable truth was too much for Rocky to handle:

Those fights weren't right. I never fought anybody in their prime. There was always some angle to keep the title longer than I shoulda had it.

Protectin' don't help nothin'. It makes things worse. You wake up one day thinking you're a winner, but you're not. You're a loser. So we wouldn't have had the title as long. So what? At least it would have been real.

In poker, there's a trap of getting too comfortable with your winrate. You think "oh.. over the last 10k hands, my winrate is killer" and so you open up more tables and milk the profits. I don't think anyone at the micro's should ever be "milking" anything. You should focus on improving and extracting knowledge, not profits every time you play. Logically, it makes more sense to learn as much as you can so that you can break into small stakes, then medium, then high stakes and then milk the profits there, where your killer winrate will translate to absolute profits that don't even compare to the micro profits. If you're milking profits at the micro's, you'll get to small stakes super quick, but then you'll hit a wall when the competition gets heavy and you'll go through what Rocky went through.

Another trap is when players try to find shortcuts to winning by memorizing charts, odds, plays, etc and start killing it in the micro's. Instead of trying to analyze and learn things at a truly DEEP level, they just memorize instead of LEARN. This happens because they think they know something when they don't really, or it comes out of pure laziness of just wanting to see their bankrolls swell with minimal effort. Their positive winrate serves as a blanket of comfort and a false sense of security (the illusion). The laziness may suffice at the micro's, but I highly doubt it will work when you move up in stakes where the competition is actually 'dangerous'. Again, you'll move up fast (although probably not faster than if you really learned the fundamentals), but you'll hit a wall sooner or later.

I ran into this problem of illusion: I played on a Euro site that was particularly fishy and did very well. I moved my funds to Stars after my bonus cashed in and started playing there and got my ass handed to me (mostly due to variance, but also because of an illusion that I was a winner) [down 13 BI’s in my last 7k hands]. I've accepted the fact that I'm not good and I'm working my ass off to fix it. I find there's no room for pride in poker. You have to accept yourself as you are (realistically and without delusions) and maximize your potential and improve cause there's always someone better than you. Honestly, never go to a Euro site because you think that it's fishy. “Fight people who are in their prime”. You WANT your competition to be tough; how will you learn anything if everyone you're playing against is WORST than you and they're shoving KJo PF into your AA??

Nothing in this life comes easy without hard work, especially not in poker. STOP being lazy and keep yourself from falling into the illusion. Think proactively in play and after you're done your session, open up PokerTracker and analyze your hands that you've marked and the top 5 wins/losses of the session. Don't just grind all day, every day. Learn something. Learn a new concept, or explore one more deeply (depth over breadth, depth over breadth, depth over breadth...) Keep a notebook where you keep notes on everything you learn; how the hell are you gonna learn something in-depth by merely reading an article? Analyze the article. Question the article. Discuss the article. PROVE you understand.

If you haven't already, start by reading everything in the Beginner's Digest. If you've done that already, read a book that someone from FTR recommends you (Theory of Poker and Professional No Limit Hold'em by Sklansky are good starting points). There's always something to learn, and the moment you accept your current level and milk the profits, the sooner your growth will stall.

I'm glad that I went through the worst downswing I've ever been through cause I know when that variance decides to change direction, I'm gonna come out immensely stronger than I was going in. I'm more determined than ever and I'm gonna grip the 10NL players by the throat and show them how FTR players play. I got the eye of the tiger baby .

[philly and the phanatics]

great post xpaand, i agree with everything you said and none of it is really new or groundbreaking, but at the same time it is an idea that you need to beat into yourself, always strive for excellence through hard work and dedication

[JKDS]

NH

[StarGrinder]

Nice insight. However, allow me to retort.

Money made in this game comes from bad players taking lines with negative expectations. And while reg wars and tough games are great for the learning experience, it's not something you'd want to do day in and day out. So I don't really think this applies here.

In Rocky's case, he felt his championship was tainted because he never fought the best on their best day. His pride is at stake here. In poker, there's no room for pride and there's no room for ego. When a really good lagg takes the seat to our left vacated by the fish we just stacked, we find another table. When we're sitting 300bb deep and 3 fish get up leaving only you and 3 other deep taggs, we find another table. I don't actively go bumhunting like it's my religion, but I sure don't go fishing for sharks either.

And I understand what you're saying about dudes who grind 5k hands per day at the micros for 2BB/100 and then wonder why the hell they can't win at 100nl. But it's not because they haven't sat with the best of the best. It's because they just auto-pilot all day long without a plan for anything. It's because they're VPP whores who don't learn a damn thing except for how to be a nitbox. And I know this is kind of what you're getting at.

So I do agree with everything else though, and I've found myself doing the same lazy bullshit. And to get any better and finally make it out of micro hell, it just ain't going to cut it no more. It's time to fuck or walk.

[xpaand]

Nice insight. However, allow me to retort.

Money made in this game comes from bad players taking lines with negative expectations. And while reg wars and tough games are great for the learning experience, it's not something you'd want to do day in and day out. So I don't really think this applies here.

In Rocky's case, he felt his championship was tainted because he never fought the best on their best day. His pride is at stake here. In poker, there's no room for pride and there's no room for ego. When a really good lagg takes the seat to our left vacated by the fish we just stacked, we find another table. When we're sitting 300bb deep and 3 fish get up leaving only you and 3 other deep taggs, we find another table. I don't actively go bumhunting like it's my religion, but I sure don't go fishing for sharks either.

And I understand what you're saying about dudes who grind 5k hands per day at the micros for 2BB/100 and then wonder why the hell they can't win at 100nl. But it's not because they haven't sat with the best of the best. It's because they just auto-pilot all day long without a plan for anything. It's because they're VPP whores who don't learn a damn thing except for how to be a nitbox. And I know this is kind of what you're getting at.

So I do agree with everything else though, and I've found myself doing the same lazy bullshit. And to get any better and finally make it out of micro hell, it just ain't going to cut it no more. It's time to fuck or walk.

To the last part of your retort, EXACTLY! Yeah I realize the comparison isn't 100% solid. I mean boxing and poker are two very different sports. And I didn't mean you should give up table selection; I think that's a very important +EV action that everyone should take part in. But I'm talking about the people who will stop playing if they can't find a table with 2 fish in it, or they don't wanna play on site X or site Y because they're not filled with Euro-fish. I mean obviously if EVERYONE at your level/table is better than you, you're not gonna fare well, but if you're focusing all of your efforts into finding fish to stack instead of learning to become better as a player, then I think that's a problem. That was just one little part of my argument cause I felt like it affected me in a big way when I was over at a Euro site.

I'm talking more about the illusion. The illusion that you are "good". The illusion is POISON. It's what makes you stop learning. The illusion is what makes your hunger to achieve subside. The illusion is what gives you pride (as I said in my original post that "I find there is no room for pride in poker").

That being said and everyone is different. Some people don't get cocky and over confident about their skills and I think that's a great trait to have to achieve success. However, I believe the majority (especially the younger guys) suffer from overconfidence and pride holding them back from being as good as they could be.

[StarGrinder]

Playing on Stars vs [ insert Euro site here ] is like comparing post-UIGEA to back in pre-UIGEA, although I never played online back then so maybe I'm tad off on that statement. But anyway, I wouldn't say a $4k roll built from a micro-bonk nit box is tainted per say, but you're right in saying that these types of players think they're better than they really are - because they wonder why they can't win at higher levels. Well it's because you coasted through micro land instead of paying your dues and actually learning what the hell is going on. We're on the same page.

[Sasquach991]

Rocky's opponent is another boxer.

Your "opponent" is not other players but different levels of play.

The bums Rocky was fighting are the micros

Clubber Lang is the higher stakes games

[xpaand]

Rocky's opponent is another boxer.

Your "opponent" is not other players but different levels of play.

The bums Rocky was fighting are the micros

Clubber Lang is the higher stakes games

Thank you for making the analogy work so much better haha.

[StarGrinder]

I was going through some old FTR threads and thought the following might coincide with this thread:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post1756338

I'm saying that winning at 2.5 ptBB/100 6 tabling at 100nl FR will earn you about $25 / hour, so who cares if you can earn $6.25 an hour 16 tabling 10nl? The big hourly win rates are at the bigger stakes (with more rakeback, faster clearing bonuses, etc). So it makes the most sense to play fewer tables and learn MORE faster so that long term you'll be at the small/mid stakes faster.

From your description of where you're at, I would say you need to stay at 10nl playing just a few tables for the sake of learning poker discipline. You'll need more discipline to be successful at every level higher. I have a well-chronicled history (here on FTR) of bouncing back and forth between 10nl and 25nl, never getting any better, and doing stupid-ass things like trying to 16-table 10nl in an effort to "build a roll and move up."

I guess I'm just saying that if you learn to play poker, you'll soon have plenty of roll and plenty of success moving up levels. What you do when you get to 100nl will be to continue whatever things you've found in the previous 3 levels that made you a success. If that's adding tables, or playing 6max, or whatever.

[daven]

very nice post dude.