Value?

[pduan]

What does it mean when you guys say "bet for value" or "by not betting you are giving up too much value" ?

I'm assuming "value" in this term takes into account hand equity, pot size, and probably some other factors?

[daven]

value is kinda like profit

[wesrman]

Value (poker)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In poker, the strength of a hand (how likely it is to be the best according to the rules of the game being played) is often called its value; however, in the context of poker strategy the term is more often used to describe a betting tactic, a bet for value. This bet (or raise) is intended to increase the size of the pot, by inducing opponents to call. A bet for value is in contrast to a bluff or a protection bet (though some bets may have a combination of these motives).

For a bet for value to be correct, a player must have a positive expectation, that is, he will win more than one bet for every bet he puts in the pot. Note that pot odds do not matter in this situation, because the factor here is whether it is more profitable to raise or call, rather than to call or fold. Betting for value can apply to both made hand and drawing hand situations, although in the latter situation it is less often correct, as the drawing hand's chances of winning are generally lower. Many made hands will win the pot more than 50% of the time, therefore a value bet is usually correct, even heads up.

For example, in a game of Texas hold 'em, a player has 8♣ 6♠ with a flop of 9♥ 7♦ 2♣, The player has an open-ended straight draw and so has 8 outs (four 10s and four 5s). With 47 unknown cards, the player will make the straight approximately 1 time for every 5 times he doesn't, thus a bet is profitable if 6 or more of his opponents will call the bet (he will win once (+6 bets) and lose 5 times (-5 bets), out of every 6 hands like this, resulting in an expectation of +1 bet). If he thinks that less than 6 opponents will call the bet, he would lose money and must simply call.

[pduan]

So according to that wiki article, I should only raise if I can get 6 or more people to raise? otherwise call?

[sarbox68]

So according to that wiki article, I should only raise if I can get 6 or more people to raise? otherwise call?

Not necessarily. Just to level set, the example in the article is limit, assumes made hand by next street and uses a draw as an example. It DOES illustrate why "value betting" really isn't something you do in most cases with only a drawing hand... and this is esp true in No Limit as the bet sizes aren't constrained and a lot of things can happen to blow your drawing odds to hell.

My take on "value betting" is adding money to the pot when you believe you have the strongest hand. I think pure value betting is mostly relevant on the River, as there are no more cards to come. You're looking to get paid for being the odds-on favorite to win at showdown.

It's obv much more complicated than that, because all of the other aspects of betting come into play. For example, it's why we don't slow-play AA/KK or made sets on a flush or straight-draw flop. We're betting in part for value (prolly have the best hand right now) and partly to protect our hand by denying drawing odds. If I just focus on extracting value and ignore protection, I'm f-king myself when the 3rd suited or 4th to the straight hits on the Turn. Reads are also a big part... I may fold my KK on a QJx flop against a 3-bet push from a ultra-tight/passive player. And in the example in the article (assuming NL), if I'm holding KK against that board with 5 players limping in, I'm raising the holy hell out of 'em to get them out of my hand as quickly as possible.

Don't know if this helped, but good luck!

[pduan]

Sweet, that definitely helps, thanks for the reply.