KK facing reraise from passive donk.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($3.45)
SB ($2)
Hero (BB) ($4.99)
UTG ($3.85)
UTG+1 ($5.03)
MP1 ($4.38)
MP2 ($1.34)
CO ($2.23)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.08, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, MP1 raises to $0.40, Hero ???

Reads... MP1 is 42/4 over 45 hands, passive donk who I'm more than happy to get into a pot with when I have KK. As his stats suggest, he's rather fond of the limp/call pre flop, and is folding a lot on the flop unless he has a hand. I've been running at 18/9 over the 45 hands I've been at the table and we have already got involved in one big pot, with me doubling up off his tptk AK with a set (we both called button's raise if I recall correctly, he limp called from early and I called the bb), which caused him to max out to $5 to match my stack.

So, he's raised like twice in an hour, and now I find he's found some balls when I have KK. It's the first time he's 3bet pf, he's either been the raiser or has called a raise, so although he's a donk I have him on a tight range... QQ+ (obviously 50-50 against our hand), but I'm leaning more towards AA after the way he played AK earlier. Should I adjust my equity if I think AA is more likely than QQ, even if mathematically they're equally as likely?

I decided to call his pre flop raise, taking a c/f line on any non-king flop. I figured due to stacks, even if I have him on AA only, I should call 16c to potentially win well over $4, I figured he'd be itching to stack off on the flop with AA.

Could he have AKs? Perhaps he realises he played his last AK badly and is now consciously playing it stronger? Or is this QQ enough times to stack off? Have I just convinced myself he has aces and lost a potentially monster pot against what is actually a much wider range? This was a tough one for me, because we were both deep and I realised he might be prone to tilt due to our previous encounter. I think I need more than 45 hands though before I can decide this, I hadn't seen any sign of tilt up to this point. Our previous big hand was a good 15 hands before this, in case that's relevant.

Once I made the decision pre flop to take a c/f line on the flop if I miss, I stuck to my guns on a paired 2tone rags flop... I checked, he potted, I folded without swearing. I'm not sure the flop bet help me decide between AA QQ or AK, I was already leaning towards AA but all three of them probably pot the flop when checked over to them, so am I better to b/f the flop?

Cheers.

Don't out play yourself. With KK try to get it in. Raise is to 1 - 1.2. Don't get your opponents more credit than they deserve.

Don't get me wrong, 99% of the time KK is easy to play pre flop, raise, raise and raise some more. I don't normally get shellshocked with the hand unless an ace falls, I realise I'm going to stack off pre flop with kings against aces around about the same number of times that kings are going to run into my aces, and then the suckouts should balance out etc. But I don't want to use this as an excuse for getting myself in too deep when I had the chance to get away. I have lost count of the number of times I've got ito a raising war with KK vs AA, and thought to myself "I should fold, this is aces", before shoving to find they have aces. When they shove raise, KK is well ahead of their range and is a call every time, but when it's a controlled raising war, in my experience KK is bad too often to make it profitable to shove against this kind of raising exchange.
To me this looks like aces, based on how I've observed his play over 45 hands, and how I've observed previous raising wars in general when I see KK vs AA stack off. I know it could be AK or QQ, but I just feel this guy flats these hands to my 3bet. And if he has KK, we'll pay as much in rake by stacking off as I lose by folding the flop, so I can happily fold in that event.

I realise that I either played this hand brilliantly or terribly, there's no middle ground at all. If he has AA it's as good as you can hope for without actually sucking out, losing 20bb instead of 220 (effectively 200bb won). But if he has AK, QQ or junk like TT then I'm a moron who just got mugged off. I just don't think he did though.

He said in the chat bar AA after I folded, I just said nh and hoped he was being truthful, but it didn't matter, I wasn't go to dwell on it. I figured I'd just saved my stack, I felt at the time like I played the hand perfectly, it was only after my session I thought about the hand for longer, and decided to post it for feedback.

Set mining KK itt

This has to be an epic level

please be an epic level

@2nl KK gets all in whenever possible. Prolly higher stakes too but defo 2nl. He doesn't only do this with AA and 45 hands isn't enough to know crap about it. Ship it.

good fold, small msitake

you're 50% vs QQ+ plus even the most ultra nit is capable of getting bored and doing that with a wider range.

besides its not like you're drawing dead...

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
1 fold, MP calls $0.05, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.25, MP raises to $0.45, Hero raises to $1.05, MP raises to $1.65, Hero raises to $5 (All-In), MP calls $2.57 (All-In)

Flop: ($8.46) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($8.46) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($8.46) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $8.46 | Rake: $0.56

Results:
Hero had Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (three of a kind, Kings).
MP had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $7.90

YouTube - 50 Cent- I Get It In(Final+Lyrics)

I hate fiddy cent, that link just makes me want to go on tilt.

ty tyrn... Notice the manner in which the two hands raise each other in your hand? It looks like he has AA to me. For a start, if I see someone l/r from early (especially on an aggressive table at the micros), it's pretty much AA like 99% of the time. And secondly, he min raises your pf raise twice, this is AA and AA only. The way he's played his AA makes me want to puke in his face, he's as good as written his hand on his forehead. But you aren't seeing this, you just say "if he has AA it's unlucky" and shove. No, if he has AA, then you're beat four times in five, it's not unlucky, it's poker and we can get away from it if the idiot shouts his hand out as loud as he can, and if we can get away from this spot while others can't, it's a source of profit.

"besides its not like you're drawing dead..."

Shouldn't this be in the excuses thread?

Oh, I'm glad you bust his aces, it's always nice to see them cracked when they l/r. I remember stacking off 250bb with a flopped boat with 23o on the bb after aces limped, one of my favourite hands of all time it was. He even called me a fish until I pointed out he limped on my bb, at which point he left the table. I had to sit out for a couple of minutes while I tried to stop laughing.

its 2nl. i'd get this in like 400bb+ deep

more often than not theyre just clicking buttons or looking at AJs and going oooh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OngBonga

ty tyrn... Notice the manner in which the two hands raise each other in your hand? It looks like he has AA to me. For a start, if I see someone l/r from early (especially on an aggressive table at the micros), it's pretty much AA like 99% of the time. And secondly, he min raises your pf raise twice, this is AA and AA only. The way he's played his AA makes me want to puke in his face, he's as good as written his hand on his forehead. But you aren't seeing this, you just say "if he has AA it's unlucky" and shove. No, if he has AA, then you're beat four times in five, it's not unlucky, it's poker and we can get away from it if the idiot shouts his hand out as loud as he can, and if we can get away from this spot while others can't, it's a source of profit.

"besides its not like you're drawing dead..."

Shouldn't this be in the excuses thread?

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I don't know what site you play on, but at 5NL at least 33% of the time I get raised it's a min raise. No it's not always aces, some people just don't like using the bet slider. I'll only post one in the interest of not spamming this thread with useless hand histories. Yes you will lose to a better hand sometimes, and you will also lose to a worse hand sometimes, but you will always be losing value by not raising kings preflop at 2NL.

You're seeing monsters under the bed. Shouldn't that be in the excuses thread?

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
Hero bets $0.20, MP raises to $0.40, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5.19 (All-In), MP calls $1.67 (All-In)

Flop: ($4.21) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.21) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.21) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.21 | Rake: $0.28

Results:
Hero had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (flush, Queen high).
MP had Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (flush, Jack high).
Outcome: Hero won $3.93

It's not the min raise alone... it's the limp/raise from early, the min reraise, the controlled raising war, rather than lunatic raising war, and, naturally, individual player tendancies. This guy who calls your shove with JJ... was he running at 4% pfr? JJ is easy fold here so you have yourself a fish who calls too light. Did you have notes or stats to help you decide this? Fwiw, when you shove I'm fairly sure you don't have AA, unless I got notes on you to determine otherwise, or unless you know this guy calls shoves light. If it were against me, it looks like QQ, KK or maybe AKs (hence JJ being easy fold), but not AA. He might have AA, but it's not AA only. It's AA only when someone l/r from UTG and then min raises an aggressive raiser twice before we even see a flop, such as in your first hand, or it's AA only, for me, when a serial limper suddenly finds the raise button against a 3better, even though he didn't know where it was when he had AK not so long ago.

"You're seeing monsters under the bed."

Maybe. Like I say, I raise this pf to high hell the vast majority of the time, I can take it when it runs into AA or when they suck out, it's not big pot fear or anything because I need only open up tracker and see KK is a hugely profitable hand. But, it's not the nuts... even as I reassess this hand and hear you all say "SHIP IT!!!" I'm still happy I got away from this cheaply.

your villain didn't limp either, he just min raised your raise. Look at the first hand I posted, my 4 bet was pretty much a min raise, it just means he thinks your range is weak. The point I was trying to convey is that not everyone min raises with aces, and not every min raise is aces. 45 hands is not enough hands to fold kings preflop. I'm sure you've sat through 5 orbits with your best hand being 55 or AJ or worse.

Your read is off on my second hand (maybe because I have $5.19 in my stack, the effective size is only $1.67). I'm shoving AA everytime I shove QQ. I shove QQ 100% for value because I think I'm ahead, and I think he will call with worse, so why wouldn't I do the exact same w/ AA. I'm not shoving w/ QQ as a bluff because I think he will fold a better hand. I think your problem is that you're assuming big raises are bluffs and small ones are the nuts.