Somethings i do

Hand 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($3.85)
UTG+1 ($5.06)
MP1 ($1.85)
MP2 ($3.81)
CO ($2.92)
Hero (Button) ($1.51)
SB ($7.37)
BB ($2.63)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.06, MP1 calls $0.06, MP2 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.35) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.48, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.95 | Rake: $0


Ok i realized my preflop bet was a little weak. I know i picked a bad hand to get aggresive with a board like this because i mean its obvios he has king so wtf was thinking. He was in a lot of pots previosly so i figured id test the waters.


The very next hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($3.77)
UTG ($5.06)
MP1 ($2.42)
MP2 ($3.73)
Hero (CO) ($1.13)
Button ($7.36)
SB ($2.61)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, MP1 bets $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.12, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $0.18, Hero calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.39) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.63) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.32, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.63 | Rake: $0


I flat called his flop bet hoping for one of my two overs or an ace (as a scare card) because i really felt now hes just screwing with me like he did others before and he one the last hand by reraising my reraise. I chickened out when he fired the second barrel.

3 hands later

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($3.30)
Button ($5.02)
SB ($2.45)
BB ($3.29)
UTG ($2.98)
Hero (UTG+1) ($1.32)
MP1 ($7.22)
MP2 ($4)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $0.06, 3 folds, Button calls $0.06, SB calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.24) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.18, 1 fold, SB calls $0.18, BB calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.78) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets $0.18, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.36, SB calls $0.18

River: ($1.50) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $0.22, Hero raises to $0.72 (All-In), SB calls $0.50

Total pot: $2.94 | Rake: $0.10


I got my money back and some. lol. I really wasnt afraid of the flush and he played back at me everytime i played at him. I mean i flop the nuts the turn puts the flush out there e bets at me now lol and i minraise him and he calls. Then fires at me again.

I just want to know was what i did with the queens stupid? Also was my thaught process stupid with the second hand? I just dont like to let people walk on me. Thanks for your input guys.

Hand 1-PF I would have raised more since there were 3 limpers in front of you. Maybe 5-7x depending on table. I might have just flatted the flop and reevaluated on the turn after he made his move and I am in position.

Hand 2- I would flat PF (it is already heads up against an aggressive player and we have position). Flop I fold (I rearaise big if I think he is Cbetting with air but KQ is dangerous against a loose aggressive player with any A capability.)

Hand 3- NH good play

Hand 1, you already know you should have raised bigger freflop. The raise to check for a king isn't bad, but I'd probably just call and see what they do next.

Hand 2, it's the right price to call after the flop, but I'd still fold there; a K or Q of spades could be very risky if they come.

Hand 3, don't see much wrong except possibly not just shoving on the turn, but yeah, nice one.

Hand 1 - Definitely agree with lockpull. I probably would have bet .20 PF. I know that's 10XBB which is way too heavy, but I find that people at $2NL will call with shit if you don't raise past .16.

Hand 2 - I would have raised his flop to see how he would react (if he re-raised I'd fold, if he called, I'd re-evaluate on the turn).

Hand 3 - Good job!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S1x

The raise to check for a king isn't bad...

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I disagree. Any takers on why?

1. Don't raise the flop unless he is so bad that you're happy to stack off. Multiway, this is just such a spew and turns your hand into a total bluff. I'd call and evaluate the turn.

2. Don't min raise pre because it accomplishes nothing except perhaps allowing him to 4 bet you when you have a marginal hand. Either flat in position or if you think you are really that far ahead of his range 3 bet to at least 3x for value. Flop is bad, this guy isn't the type obviously to backdown with ANY sort of hand, so just wait for a spot where you can stack him.

What you're doing is running into a big blind monster's cave with a cucumber, when there's a nice shotgun shipment coming in sometime in the next 20 minutes.

3. And the shotguns arrive.

Hand 2 i was really looking to bluff or semi-bluff him. Any spade Ace King or Queen i was raising him. But when it was a blank and he fired again. It was an easy fold.

Hand 1 in all honesty was just stupid now that i look back on it and i see your replies. I dont think i shoulda flat called because hes aggresive he woulda double barreled. I shoulda jus tossed em

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S1x

The raise to check for a king isn't bad...

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I disagree. Any takers on why?

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Oh, do you mean the high chance they'll just call and you haven't learned much more than if you just called?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Hand 1... I dont think i shoulda flat called because hes aggresive he woulda double barreled. I shoulda jus tossed em

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How is your hand faring against his range right now? If he is really bluffy, QQ is doing pretty freaking good. "Because he's aggressive he woulda double barreled" is exactly what you want, and is precisely why you don't want to raise. By raising, you spend as much as you would have to call both his flop and turn bets, and you still might be laying down the best hand before seeing another card. Instead, if you call the flop, you give him a chance to keep bluffing, and for the same price you can get all the way to the river with a chance to spike your Q, see a couple more Ks, hit a running straight, or whatever else.

On hand 1, if I have AJ and think I'm ahead, I will raise the flop. If I have QQ, though, I will happily bluff catch, because he usually doesn't have many outs to catch up to you when he's behind, and based on your reads he doesn't have to be ahead very often.

Let me say this one more time because it still surprises me that so many people don't grasp it. YOU WANT AGGRESSIVE VILLAINS TO FIRE MULTIPLE BETS AT YOU WITH A WORSE HAND. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO RAISE WITH GOOD SHOWDOWN VALUE IN ORDER TO PREVENT THIS.

Oh, and it's so fun those times where you are behind and miraculously catch up. Like villain has KQ and the Q hits the river. You stack him, and he is super-pissed because you were calling him down with worse and got there. You think he was a chip geyser before?

You stand to make $0.47 at the expense of $0.30 when you raise to check for a K. This is all you will make, because he folds all hands worse than yours and continues with hands that have you beat.

If you just call, you allow him to continue with a range of hands that you beat (Tx, JJ for example). You are in position too, so you can do your checking by seeing how he acts on the turn / river. If he's inclined to bluff a lot and you decide to call the turn, you win more than just your original $0.47. If you think you're beat, well, it's only costing you $0.12 instead of $0.30.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S1x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S1x

The raise to check for a king isn't bad...

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I disagree. Any takers on why?

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Oh, do you mean the high chance they'll just call and you haven't learned much more than if you just called?

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And the fact that you are possibly ahead of his betting range on the flop; however, if you raise you are likely behind the range he continues with. Therefore, you have turned a hand that is +ev to call his bet with, into basically a bluff (and a bad one at that) because you don't really get called by worse all that often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

YOU WANT AGGRESSIVE VILLAINS TO FIRE MULTIPLE BETS AT YOU WITH A WORSE HAND.

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If you don't give them any rope Royal, how do you expect them to hang themselves?

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Originally Posted by loonychune

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

YOU WANT AGGRESSIVE VILLAINS TO FIRE MULTIPLE BETS AT YOU WITH A WORSE HAND.

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If you don't give them any rope Royal, how do you expect them to hang themselves?

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I understand what you are saying but i hate flat calling without at least top pair. I wasnt trying to let him hang himself on that one. This was the first hand i was involved with him in. He could of had the king thats why i put in the raise i did. If i just flat call, then he bets the turn i flat call again.then again on the river. then im just giving him my money imo because i didnt feel like i was ahead in the first place. i was hoping to push him off his hand with that spew.lol. dont get me wrong i will call people down with mediocre hands if i really believe im ahead, but in this case i felt behind and i tried to defend my hand in a bad way.

"If you think you're beat, well, it's only costing you $0.12 instead of $0.30."
This is true but i stand to win the pot and his 12c if my 30c raise works.


Oh and doan diggy i dont make calls to make a miracle catch up. I know i want villian to be aggresive at me but i also want to be confident in the hand that im ahead. i was at this table for like 15-20 tops. He was aggresive but not completly stupid and just giving his money away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

I understand what you are saying but i hate flat calling without at least top pair. I wasnt trying to let him hang himself on that one. This was the first hand i was involved with him in. He could of had the king thats why i put in the raise i did. If i just flat call, then he bets the turn i flat call again.then again on the river. then im just giving him my money imo because i didnt feel like i was ahead in the first place. i was hoping to push him off his hand with that spew.lol. dont get me wrong i will call people down with mediocre hands if i really believe im ahead, but in this case i felt behind and i tried to defend my hand in a bad way.

"If you think you're beat, well, it's only costing you $0.12 instead of $0.30."
This is true but i stand to win the pot and his 12c if my 30c raise works.

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Fail

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

He could of had the king thats why i put in the raise i did.

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Wat? By raising you ensure that when he continues, he does have the kings. Or you give him a chance to blow you off QQ with only QJ or AJ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

If i just flat call, then he bets the turn i flat call again.

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Yessir, absolutely. And for the same .30 that it cost you to raise the flop, you get all the way to the river, with a chance to hit your Q or keep him in there with a worse hand. And you can evaluate his river bet and decide if you want to call. QQ is too strong on this flop against this villain to turn into a bluff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

then im just giving him my money imo because i didnt feel like i was ahead in the first place.

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Then why continue at all?

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

i was hoping to push him off his hand with that spew.

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Is he ever folding a K? So you were hoping to push him off a hand you were beating? Does that make any sense at all?


Edit -- Just saw this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Oh and doan diggy i dont make calls to make a miracle catch up.

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That's not what I meant at all. I'm calling here because I'm ahead a lot of the time. The fact is, sometimes I'm behind. And sometimes when I'm behind, I manage to catch up. Those times are infinitely satisfying.

Then why continue at all?

exactly i shouldnt have.

i felt he had a king and was hoping to push him off it. my read was right unless he had a set either way i was beat. hes not gonna reraise my reraise with QJ or AJ. lol.

You try playing laggy sometime and then tell me if you don't reraise QJ or AJ in this spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

You try playing laggy sometime and then tell me if you don't reraise QJ or AJ in this spot.

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he raised i reraised and he reraised my reraise. i dont think hes doing that with QJ or AJ. If he is risking his whole stack with one of those hands more power to him. lol. i will wait until i feel good about my hand and situation before i start calling him down. I got no problem with waiting for the right time to bite.

Why post hands, and not accept (or at least consider) advice that is given?

If I'm playing against a weak/tight player making an obvious feeler raise, I'm going to repop with any 8-out-or-better draw to get them to fold. And they will fold a lot. When they don't, I have outs to beat them. EZ game.

You stand to win $0.42 at the expense $0.30 when you raise. It's as simple as that. You never (or rarely) make more than that.

Let's say you're ahead half the time. That means you make $0.06 every time you make this play [(1/2)*($0.42) + (1/2)*(-$0.30)].

Now say when you call he bets all his range on the turn for $0.18. Now you make $0.60 for your $0.30 (by calling the flop and turn) which is $0.15 every time you make this play [(1/2)*($0.60) + (1/2)*(-$0.30)]. It's not likely he can fire the river unless he's really strong, and if he does, you give up. But by just calling you let him bet with the half of his range that you beat on the turn.

Over-simplified, yes. But by doing what you're doing you're not really playing post-flop poker imo.

In response to one of the things you said, about not really thinking you're ahead: if he only ever leads top pair on the flop, you fold. If he never double-barrels, you know you're beat on the turn and give up there.

Likely scenario:

Flop:
MP1 bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12
Turn:
MP1 bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18
River:
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

> When this happens, you always make more than if you raise the flop.

Hand 1: In a multiway pot like that, this is a very spewy play. Remember, money saved is just as good as money earned. There's another player behind you to act, and you have no value in raising. A raise on the flop here pushes out worse hands, while keeping the strong ones. Just call and evaluate the turn.

Hand 2: A minbet is really just a nuisance raise. It only really drives out complete air. KQs isn't really a great hand to 3 bet anyways. I would call, since you're going to have position on later streets. I think floating the flop is fine. But a on the turn K would be a real trouble card, since he could very well have AK.

Hand 3: You flopped the nuts, then rivered the nuts, and got full value for it. There's not much to say about this hand. I don't hate the turn min raise since it goes well with bet sizing, but I'm just not a minraising type of person.

stacks why would you say that? because im not agreeing with someone? I did consider his advice...if i didnt i wouldnt even reply or keep replying in this case. Its all good advice and i think about it all. Im just explaining my reasoning to him is all. If i seam hard headed its because i am.

The thing is, I'm not just talking about this hand. Raising (or even betting) in a way-ahead/way-behind scenario is a huge mistake that comes up at least a few times per session. And so many players do it. It just gets super-frustrating trying to explain 5 different ways over and over again why it's a mistake and still no one ever seems to get it. Don't raise QQ with a K on the board. Don't raise KK with an A on the board. Don't raise the bottom end of a straight on a 3-to-a-flush paired board. There is no value in doing so; all you do is force your opponent to play correctly.

Caveat: these raises can sometimes be correct given certain history or with a read that villain is a total fish, but I'm talking about in general.

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

i felt he had a king and was hoping to push him off it

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You said you raised for information, no?

No one is having a go at you. Just trying to relay the things we've learned.

I reckon there's a small saving grace to a raise, and that's that you certainly don't want to see a turn multiway. Your raise helped knock one player behind out.

Still, I reckon you should be playing that flop against his entire range every time. He didn't definitely have a K. And since his range is going to include Tx and JJ and maybe a few more hands, the best play is letting him continue with these hands.

In my above example, the only way a raise would be more profitable is if you had a tonne of fold equity on the flop (like he would only be able to continue with KT and AK probably).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

If I'm playing against a weak/tight player making an obvious feeler raise, I'm going to repop with any 8-out-or-better draw to get them to fold. And they will fold a lot. When they don't, I have outs to beat them. EZ game.

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In this case i dont think my bet was an obvious feeler raise. But hey it could be viewed that way. But i wasnt trying to feel him out i was trying to snatch the pot right then and their. (which was dumb) But i agree and do what you said above raise them weak/tight players when i have outs. i dont really run into many places where i have to repop or choose to repop. how ofton do you usually do that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Then why continue at all?

exactly i shouldnt have.

i felt he had a king and was hoping to push him off it. my read was right unless he had a set either way i was beat. hes not gonna reraise my reraise with QJ or AJ. lol.

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Don't rely on a player at microstakes to lay down top pair. Rely on them to pay you off with top pair instead.

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Originally Posted by ColdDecked

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

Then why continue at all?

exactly i shouldnt have.

i felt he had a king and was hoping to push him off it. my read was right unless he had a set either way i was beat. hes not gonna reraise my reraise with QJ or AJ. lol.

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Don't rely on a player at microstakes to lay down top pair. Rely on them to pay you off with top pair instead.

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:D

yo dre drop the verse

Raising this flop with QQ is a pretty blatant -ev play. I'm not going to spend a lot of time building a range for villain, but let's look at this situations from a few different perspectives.

Let's just assume that on this flop against villains betting range that we feel we are behind his betting range. That means that we feel we have <50% equity against the range of hands villain would bet in this spot. If this is the case, then we can immediately conclude that calling is a -ev play, unless we are intending to compensate on later streets (such as floating the flop knowing we are behind his range, but believe we can take the pot away often enough on later streets to make up for the initial call).

Therefore, if calling is -ev, then we shouldn't do it. So our other two options would be to either fold or raise (but as a bluff). Folding would be a 0ev play. That is, over the long run we do not expect to either make or lose money in this situation (because we aren't risking any).

I suggested raising as a bluff in the previous paragraph. I'm not really speaking towards this exact hand history, or even situations such as this. I'm just speaking from a theory based perspective, where raising in one of our options, and doing so in this situation would be as a bluff. The reason being is if we are -ev in calling against his betting range (we have <50% equity against the range he bets), then when we raise and narrow his continuing range even more, we are obviously going to experience a loss in equity (as his range of hands narrows and becomes stronger). However, if we feel he is folding enough hands in his betting range to make a raise +ev, then we should raise as a bluff in this situation. You would find this out by using math to determine how often villain needs to fold (based on the pot size, your raise size, etc), and then comparing that to his betting range vs. his continuing range.

Let's say that in this situation we DO NOT feel villain is folding often enough to make a bluff raise profitable. Therefore, that makes bluff raising -ev also.

Therefore, if our assumed situations is correct, and we are in fact behind villains donking range on this flop (as you alluded to in an earlier post), then our decisions would fall along this line: folding > calling > raising, where calling and raising can be interchanged based on their exact ev. Therefore, in this situation since both calling and raising are -ev plays, we would be correct in taking the 0ev play that is folding.

Now, if we assume we are ahead of villains donking range on this flop, then the situation changes a bit. First, we now know that calling is +ev. This is because we have >50% equity against his range of hands, and therefore a greater % of the pot "belongs" to us. Folding remains 0ev, as always. So as of right now we know that folding is incorrect, and we will be continuing in the hand. But the question is how, call or raise?

Well to determine how we continue in the hand we have to look at the EV of a raise from us. Note that if we raise we would no longer be dealing with just his donking range on this flop, but instead we have to adjust his range to a calling range. That is, what hands he would bet the flop with and call our raise. If we have >50% equity against the range that he is calling our raise with, then a raise is +ev. If that is not the case, and we actually have <50% equity against the range that continues against our range, then raising is -ev and we shouldn't do it.

We then must compare the EV of calling versus the EV of raising to determine which is more +EV, and from that we decide what our action will be.

Regarding this particular situation. If you feel you are actually behind his donking range (as I believe you do), then your only real options are to either fold or raise. Given his range, and the range he will continue with, I do not believe that a raise will cause him to fold enough of his range to be profitable, therefore you must take the 0ev route of folding.

If you felt you are ahead of his range, then your options are between calling or raising. I do not believe that you will be ahead of his calling range (that calls your raise), therefore, calling becomes your best option. Therefore, calling > folding > raising, where folding and raising can be interchanged based on actual ev.

As far as my actual thoughts on the first hand. First off, your raised too little preflop. This likely made the flop situation worse as now you have a marginal hand in a multiway pot. As played, I would fold the flop and move on. You could very likely be behind his donking range. But also given there is multiple players seeing the flop, villain's range, and therefore your range, should be stronger than usual to bet, or continue, on this board.

If you had raised more correctly preflop, and we got the desired result of seeing a pot IP HU, then the situation changes. Now you no longer have the worry about other villains to act behind you and such. Also villains betting range, and your continuing range, should and most likely will widen. So depending on villain I could see cases for both folding to his donk bet, or calling one street. Raising would never cross my mind in this situation, and if you want clarification for why go read my above post again.

Stacks is on the money here.

well put stacks. in the future when i think i'm behind in a situation like this im just going to fold. i just hate ditching queens without a battle....lol
I will also take into account what you wrote when i feel ahead in a situation like this. When i feel ahead it dosnt really rattle me its when i feel behind.

I dont know how anyone can play that low of a limit, its just such garbage I would say you will be more profitable at the 5-10 cent level.

yea your right Freerolls are much better

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Originally Posted by gn2056

I dont know how anyone can play that low of a limit, its just such garbage I would say you will be more profitable at the 5-10 cent level.

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And I feel you would be valuable at railbirds.com

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

I will also take into account what you wrote when i feel ahead in a situation like this. When i feel ahead it dosnt really rattle me its when i feel behind.

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This is one of the points I was trying to get across. And this is that ranges ARE NOT static. You could very well be ahead of villains donking range on this flop. In which case a call would be +EV, which would make it better than a fold (0EV). However, simply being ahead of villain range does not mean that a raise is profitable. Because ranges change based on action, while you might be ahead of villains entire donking range on the flop, you are very likely to be behind of villain's bet/calling range on this flop. And if that's the case then raising is -EV, so calling becomes your only +EV play, and the one you should make.

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalProdigy

I will also take into account what you wrote when i feel ahead in a situation like this. When i feel ahead it dosnt really rattle me its when i feel behind.

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This is one of the points I was trying to get across. And this is that ranges ARE NOT static. You could very well be ahead of villains donking range on this flop. In which case a call would be +EV, which would make it better than a fold (0EV). However, simply being ahead of villain range does not mean that a raise is profitable. Because ranges change based on action, while you might be ahead of villains entire donking range on the flop, you are very likely to be behind of villain's bet/calling range on this flop. And if that's the case then raising is -EV, so calling becomes your only +EV play, and the one you should make.

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yes if i feel ahead correct? If i dont feel ahead then i should just chuck it not call him down right? I understand calling down if im possitive i have the better hand and not raising because i dont know for sure and their is a possability he has a hand that will beat mine, its not a made hand. So i know not to raise in a situation like this again either way. I wanna call down if i think i got him and i wanna fold if i think hes got me. Now what about if he checks the river.... after lets say two blanks come out...do i bet for value is the question?

just a couple of general points to consider.
1. I found that it was a waste of time trying to bluff at 2NL some idiot will always be calling with bottom pair and very often it would go multiway to the river.

2. on stars you can auto top off your stack so that when hands like your hand 3 come along you make as much money as possible. By not topping off you lost .68 or half of the stack you actually played in lost profit.
in the lobby click on options, tick the auto rebuy at NL,PL etc box , tick the "if i fall under 100 big blinds box" and tick the "my initial buy in amount box.
you will have to keep a mental check on how much you are spewing though else you could soon blow your roll if you are calling and folding/losing a lot which may be indicated by your low stacks in the examples you gave.

after i seen picture of stacks I rushed down here to say WOW was reading post up untill that point even forgot what I just read nice rake.................RUFF

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Originally Posted by coozhound

after i seen picture of stacks I rushed down here to say WOW was reading post up untill that point even forgot what I just read nice rake.................RUFF

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You wanna see more?

5 spades because of stacks' responses. everyone needs to reread it until their brains hurt