The age old question

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10-31-2006, 10:06 PM
bluffingu

The age old question

Ok Im sure you have all went over this and are sick of it. I have a question. Now I have been playing poker for 10 years. Been playing online for 3 years. When I go to casinos, 90% of the time i make money and have done very well. Since I have started online poker I have a heck of a time making anything. I will win a few hundred. Then it seems like i hit the terrible cold streak and can't catch hands. When I finally do I get caught on with a 3 outter on ther river. It get very frustrating. Now my online play doesn't change from my casino play. Just seem like I get so many more terrible beat online. It just seems to me over the last 3 years that online poker isn't as statistically acurate as is should be. You see some unreal bad beats. Yes I know they are going to happen. Seems they are hitting way to frequently. For example the other day. I had 4 2 outter hit on me in less than an hour. That is no joke! It is getting pathetic. Now I do play lower limit online. Just for the fact that i don't trust it. Have any of you noticed it being better at the higher limits. IF so what limits are better. Also do any of you think the online sites are fixing there odds a bit to get more of these crazy river catches
10-31-2006, 10:31 PM
givememyleg

WFPE?

(Worst First Post Ever).
10-31-2006, 11:28 PM
nutsinho

sentence fragments, consider revision
10-31-2006, 11:35 PM
BankItDrew

I don't believe that it would be in the interest of any poker site to have it rigged or less random than complete randomness. Suck outs do not increase their profits.
10-31-2006, 11:37 PM
bluffingu

"sentence fragments, consider revision "

Improper punctuation. Consider revision. Idiots, I don't believe my post was asking how to correctly write a sentence. That really isn't the point and I could care less. So unless you have useful information, keep your dumb ass coments to yourself.
10-31-2006, 11:41 PM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

"sentence fragments, consider revision "

Improper punctuation. Consider revision. Idiots, I don't believe my post was asking how to correctly write a sentence. That really isn't the point and I could care less. So unless you have useful information, keep your dumb ass coments to yourself.

lol, much better 2nd post.

Here's a hint, search the forum, "rigged" is a good key word. You original post has been made about 1k times. There should be one or two from October at least.
10-31-2006, 11:44 PM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

"sentence fragments, consider revision "

Improper punctuation. Consider revision. Idiots, I don't believe my post was asking how to correctly write a sentence. That really isn't the point and I could care less. So unless you have useful information, keep your dumb ass coments to yourself.

Do you mean you "couldn't" care less? That way, what you said would actually make sense.

Edited to remove poker related content because I would rather just show how stupid you are with specific, verifiable references.
11-01-2006, 12:01 AM
bluffingu

Wow nuts, your not the quickest of learners. I believe I already told you, I COULD care less. Is this all your pathetic life entails, is going to message boards and correct grammatical errors. I don't k now about the rest of you all, but that sounds like a blast to me. So if you get your jollies off of, carry on I guess.
11-01-2006, 12:07 AM
nutsinho

You seriously sound like an 8 year old. And I still think you mean you "couldn't" care less.
11-01-2006, 12:08 AM
NLHE lahooozaher

Bluff, you sound like a real winner for 3 years.
11-01-2006, 12:12 AM
bluffingu

What would be worse? Me being a 8 year old, or the fact that you are wasting you time arguing with one?
11-01-2006, 12:24 AM
Blinky

If you think that online poker is rigged, stop playing.

The number of posters here who make money here should either help indicate that it IS possible to make money online, or else we're in on the rigging.

I think Midas has access to a doomswitch so watch out for him.
11-01-2006, 12:26 AM
martindcx1e

Re: The age old question

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

You see some unreal bad beats. Yes I know they are going to happen.

are you sure you know? it doesn't sound like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

Now I do play lower limit online. Just for the fact that i don't trust it.

that doesn't make sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

Have any of you noticed it being better at the higher limits. IF so what limits are better.

you should def. go to 25/50nl on stars. i hear they rarely have bad beats. oh ya, and also try playing in the wsop main event. they never have bad beats b/c it's live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

Also do any of you think the online sites are fixing there odds a bit to get more of these crazy river catches

no winning player thinks this...only losing players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

I believe I already told you, I COULD care less.

lol. you do understand that this means that you actually DO care to some extent because it is possible that you could care less than you currently do? me am do speek goode inglish fo rillz.
11-01-2006, 01:11 AM
bluffingu

Ok, I will be the bigger 8 year old and end this. I really do hope you all spend more time on your poker game, and less on this site. You don't make any money being poker forum nerds. Good lucky never the less:)
11-01-2006, 01:19 AM
martindcx1e

deleted
11-01-2006, 02:16 AM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by givememyleg

WFPE?

(Worst First Post Ever).

No it's not and it's not even close.

I pride myself on being an asshole, but I just don't get what this guy did to deserve this.
11-01-2006, 02:18 AM
Fnord

bluffingu,

Online poker is VERY different from live poker and the long term hits you a lot faster.

You could just be running well live or your style of play works better against the softer players.
11-01-2006, 03:41 AM
mcatdog

For the most part, online players are better at poker than live players. That probably explains why you've been making money live and losing money online.

There's no reason for an online site to rig the games because they take the same amount of rake no matter who wins the pot. It doesn't matter to them whether Joe Blow wins the pot instead of you.

PS: I agree with Fnord. You guys suck. I'm the first to recommend being a jerk to someone when he's a jerk to you first, but if someone is just being a little bit clueless, what's the point of acting like an asshole?
11-01-2006, 04:19 AM
Miffed22001

stop playing out lukewarm situations, camp more, make the nuts, get paid.
DIfference between onlineand live (from my limited live experience) is that you play more hands online!
No seriously, this had a huge effect on my play when i first went from online to live and probably will vice versa.
11-01-2006, 08:54 AM
biondino

I assume OP studied in depth his long-term PT stats and concluded that they deviated from the expected range sufficiently to have such suspicions?

The irony of the "is poker rigged?" debate, such as it is, is that actually, it doesn't matter if it's rigged because it would be rigged in a way that affects every single player! Or do people seriously think that individual players could or would be targeted for bad beats? Now THAT'S impossible.
11-01-2006, 09:10 AM
jyms

Oh yea. acording to many players at my tables. The site is rigged. They think that , of the 4K or 5K players at the tables, It's fixed so they don't win. Because they withdrew $100 last night and Riverbelle or party, or stars is out to get "their" money back. Who the FUCK won money from a poker site? The best is the guys that want to play hold-em with 6 cards. "Fuckin river rat", " If it wasn't for that river...." How is it that if he catches his set on the turn and I catch mine on the river that I'm a luckbox?
11-01-2006, 02:08 PM
Galapogos

So much for being the "friendly" site...

Anyway, the point is you see way less hands at a casino than you do online. So a run of 100 good hands at a casino stretches out way longer time-wise than they do online. So maybe you're just lucky so far at the casino.

Also, in general, live players are way looser than online players. People that go to a casino go there to gamble. Online guys are a lot tighter so when they get involved it's a bigger hand than you see them play with at the casinos.

Play like a new guy. Read the beginner's forums to make sure there's nothing about the game you've missed along the way and learn the game all over again. Online is quite different.
11-01-2006, 02:50 PM
martindcx1e

I would like to know what OP expected to hear from us. You don't come on to a poker forum full of good winning players, ask what they think of your conspiracy theory, and expect to get a warm reception.
11-01-2006, 02:58 PM
Fnord

Sometimes it isn't where you're going but how you get there.

This guy is clearly fustrated by vastly different B&M vs Online results.
11-01-2006, 03:01 PM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

I would like to know what OP expected to hear from us. You don't come on to a poker forum full of good winning players, ask what they think of your conspiracy theory, and expect to get a warm reception.

Where should he go then? He's asking the questions everyone asks when they're brand new to the game and don't understand everything that goes with it. The theme of his post was I'm a losing player and I need to get better. All anyone had to do was kindly point him to the beginner's forum. You know yourself everyone who doesn't play thinks the game's rigged, I know that's all anyone asks me is if I'm worried it's fixed.

I just never understood why people get so worked up over a first post like that. If he becomes a dick then by all means he should be bashed and tossed, but he didn't pick any fight.
11-01-2006, 03:50 PM
dpe8598

Hi bluff, there is a simple answer to your question. I'm not going to try to convince you online poker is not rigged, thats silly. I will tell you to go convince yourself though. Go get the software program poker tracker, then load your last 20 thousand hands (if this is possible from your site), then look at some stats, then know that online poker is not rigged. You will probably find out that your big hands are not being paid off as consistently as in the casino. You will also probably find out that players are much better at extracting your chips online than they are at a casino. Finally, you will see that, despite some bad beats, AA and KK etc.. will be your biggest winning hands and that you probably still win 80 to 90% of the time w/ these hands.

Once you've done all that, identify hands that are big time losers for you and come back and ask for help. Despite the fact that some were rude to you here, you will probably find that you can get some golden advice.

FInally, use said advice and start making thousands every month playing online poker.
11-01-2006, 04:11 PM
The Izebox

If it bothers you so much and you guys want to knock him then dont respond. Noone is forcing you to be forum police or to read/respond to any thread.

Who here hasnt at some point suspected that sites are rigged? At some point everybody here was an ignorant, inexperienced poker player.

Certain people (nutsinho for one) love to call people out and turn a thread into name calling and childish antics.

Perhaps certain people should stop flexing their internet muscles and try to help people who know less then most FTR posters.

If you dont like the thread, dont respond to it.
11-01-2006, 04:21 PM
martindcx1e

sorry bluff. i was a little rude with the dumb thread pic i guess. this place really is a goldmine man. don't give up on us.
11-01-2006, 05:45 PM
mrhappy333

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpe8598

Hi bluff, there is a simple answer to your question. I'm not going to try to convince you online poker is not rigged, thats silly. I will tell you to go convince yourself though. Go get the software program poker tracker, then load your last 20 thousand hands (if this is possible from your site), then look at some stats, then know that online poker is not rigged. You will probably find out that your big hands are not being paid off as consistently as in the casino. You will also probably find out that players are much better at extracting your chips online than they are at a casino. Finally, you will see that, despite some bad beats, AA and KK etc.. will be your biggest winning hands and that you probably still win 80 to 90% of the time w/ these hands.

Once you've done all that, identify hands that are big time losers for you and come back and ask for help. Despite the fact that some were rude to you here, you will probably find that you can get some golden advice.

FInally, use said advice and start making thousands every month playing online poker.

QFT.
and to find out what QFT means. check out this link.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-13407.htm

Good Luck. and thanks for being the bigger 8 yr old
11-01-2006, 06:41 PM
bearcats05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluffingu

Wow nuts, your not the quickest of learners. I believe I already told you, I COULD care less. Is this all your pathetic life entails, is going to message boards and correct grammatical errors. I don't k now about the rest of you all, but that sounds like a blast to me. So if you get your jollies off of, carry on I guess.

we dont care that much about grammatical errors. we just want something we can actually fucking read. i dont want to struggle through reading that shit when its all a bunch of bullshit. you owe use all 5 minutes of time back. im worth $64 a minute. pm me for payment details.
11-01-2006, 06:46 PM
swiggidy

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

[2] "How We Learned to Cheat at Online Poker: A Study in Software Security" - http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/ent...cle.php/616221

[3] "The Intel Random Number Generator" - http://www.cryptography.com/resource...s/IntelRNG.pdf
11-01-2006, 08:27 PM
nutsinho

HU BR
11-02-2006, 12:32 PM
gingerwizard

As I said somewhere else on this forum there is a possibility that the RNG for any particular site is flawed and may only be able to deliver certain subsets of the space of shuffles.

However this won't be rigged it will be a mistake and still wouldnt mean you get more bad beats.

It boils down to this (and i'm kinda repeating what the guys above have said just sayin it different): Since cards are shuffled and dealt at a casino and people don't have a 20 second clock on them, it takes far longer to play hands live than online. If your used to only seeing one bad beat per night at the casino that should translate up to maybe five online. Also since people are often far more conservative with their money when its sitting in front of them (as opposed to on screen) then they are less likely to call all in with nothing hoping for runner runner straight etc, so the number of rivers you get to is also likely to be less.

I have studied RNGs and am definately skeptical about any RNG claiming to fairly shuffle decks that is simply a Linear Congruential Generator. Until sites begin using 128 bit LCGs i don't think it will be perfect. Sites are NOT rigging decks. Bad beats ARE part of the game. If you think that your opponent has two outs on the river then the percentage of bad beats you'll see is around 4% (maybe more or less if the RNG is not great). Now you keep playing 1000's of hands your gonna see quite a lot of these.

Still get your money in anyway and enjoy the 96% of made hands you cash in on.
11-02-2006, 12:38 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

Also since people are often far more conservative with their money when its sitting in front of them (as opposed to on screen) then they are less likely to call all in with nothing hoping for runner runner straight etc, so the number of rivers you get to is also likely to be less.

Live players are generally much much worse than online players.

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