KK & Not Raising for Info

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05-02-2006, 04:38 PM
martindcx1e

KK & Not Raising for Info

How many play it this way?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($3.70)
SB ($15.30)
BB ($17.15)
UTG ($3.60)
UTG+1 ($12.40)
Hero ($9.60)
MP2 ($22.10)
MP3 ($31.75)
CO ($4.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.9, Hero raises to $3, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls $2.10.

Flop: ($6.15) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($6.15) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1, Hero calls $1.

River: ($8.15) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1, Hero calls $1.

Final Pot: $10.15

Results below:
UTG+1 has Js Jd (one pair, jacks).
Hero has Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $10.15.
05-02-2006, 05:08 PM
jackvance

Heh, I do. You'll make more here from inducing (even little) bluffs imo. Ok I got the idea from gabe, but it seems to really work out better.
05-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Rondavu

I play it the same. You basically don't want to scare off anything you have beat, so that you have the right to pay off a hand that beats you sometimes.
05-02-2006, 05:47 PM
Vrax

What about raising the turn and checking behind the river? We get some value from flushdraw and raising discourages opponent from bluffing a busted draw. If he has an Ace, the loss is the same as loss by c-betting.

Thoughts?
05-02-2006, 05:53 PM
Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

What about raising the turn and checking behind the river? We get some value from flushdraw and raising discourages opponent from bluffing a busted draw. If he has an Ace, the loss is the same as loss by c-betting.

Thoughts?

I agree with that if the opponent is passive enough, or is capable of checking a very strong hand into you on the river trying to "trap" like a moron.
05-02-2006, 05:57 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

What about raising the turn and checking behind the river? We get some value from flushdraw and raising discourages opponent from bluffing a busted draw. If he has an Ace, the loss is the same as loss by c-betting.

Thoughts?

Given the PF action what hand could he have that gives him a flush draw?
05-02-2006, 06:07 PM
Vrax

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

What about raising the turn and checking behind the river? We get some value from flushdraw and raising discourages opponent from bluffing a busted draw. If he has an Ace, the loss is the same as loss by c-betting.

Thoughts?

Given the PF action what hand could he have that gives him a flush draw?

Depends on opponent but honestly I misread HH and thought it was preflop "raise-call" not "raise-reraise-call". My bad, and it's slim chance that opponent is holding 2 clubs.

But still I'd pop it on turn and reduce my chances of facing something like 3.50 bet unless I have some reads on villain.
05-02-2006, 06:11 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

But still I'd pop it on turn and reduce my chances of facing something like 3.50 bet unless I have some reads on villain.

What's your plan if called?
05-02-2006, 06:21 PM
Vrax

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

But still I'd pop it on turn and reduce my chances of facing something like 3.50 bet unless I have some reads on villain.

What's your plan if called?

Check behind the river unimproved. Facing wimpy weak turn bet + good position= little implied threat on river and insta-muck to any reasonable bet. If I improve, then of course I v-bet/raise the river.
05-02-2006, 06:28 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

But still I'd pop it on turn and reduce my chances of facing something like 3.50 bet unless I have some reads on villain.

What's your plan if called?

Check behind the river unimproved. Facing wimpy weak turn bet + good position= little implied threat on river and insta-muck to any reasonable bet. If I improve, then of course I v-bet/raise the river.

So why do you bet if you are most likely going into c/f mode if called or raised? Is it just cuz you're afraid of a decent river bet? I call $3.50 on the river in a heartbeat btw.
05-03-2006, 05:50 AM
Lukie

You really have to bet the flop or the turn here IMO...
05-03-2006, 12:12 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

You really have to bet the flop or the turn here IMO...

Why?
05-03-2006, 05:04 PM
bdawg56kg

I think you played it fine, although I usually bet the flop everytime I 3-bet pf, just so I don't give any info away. Occasionally I check the flop and use your line.
05-04-2006, 01:25 AM
WhooFleuryScores

Quote:

Why?

Information/probe bet.If you're raised you can safely fold with no regrets(Erick Lindgren uses this to find out where he stands postflop).Checking down gives him the chance to bluff you out (say he has an unimproved QQ/JJ/TT/ or so).
05-04-2006, 02:34 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores

Quote:

Why?

Information/probe bet.If you're raised you can safely fold with no regrets(Erick Lindgren uses this to find out where he stands postflop).Checking down gives him the chance to bluff you out (say he has an unimproved QQ/JJ/TT/ or so).

If his range is high pocket or AK (maybe AQ) then you most likely fold hands that are way behind and get action from AA,AK,AQ.