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 Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Originally Posted by angrystoc
My problem, in the .01/.02 NL games, is the opposite.
"Only a J7 beats me here, and he called a 5x pre- flop..."
Villian shows full house, jacks full of sevens. It's taken me a long time to balance between getting value on my made hands when a fish donk bets all in with middle pair, and when he's re-raising Kx that hit a wacky full house on the river. Sure it's all read based, but fish (myself included) hit the nuts too.
Dunno if this was already highlighted, but this post is full of invalid reasoning.
Can you elaborate? I understand that on the surface this is a very result oriented way of thinking, however I've talked myself into a lot of bad calls by eliminating weak starting hands from a players range only to find out that is exactly what they had.
My intent was to say that when my problem was not that I don't put people on ranges, it's that I do it badly at times, and against my badly guessed range I make a mathematically 'good call' that feels wrong, and ends up being wrong. I also tend to err on the side of giving people too much credit.
Here's the example I alluded to earlier (Sorry, I can't use the hand converter for a few more posts):
PokerStars Game #22916201480: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/12/14 15:20:55 ET
Table 'Peiroos' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: VSB.Gimli ($3.01 in chips)
Seat 2: MarcusVonRix ($1.38 in chips)
Seat 3: angrystoc ($2.21 in chips)
Seat 4: Level R1 ($4.13 in chips)
Seat 5: ijwen ($1.22 in chips)
Seat 6: hobbes54321 ($10.78 in chips)
Level R1: posts small blind $0.01
ijwen: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to angrystoc [Kc Ac]
hobbes54321: folds
VSB.Gimli: folds
MarcusVonRix: calls $0.02
angrystoc: raises $0.08 to $0.10
Level R1: folds
ijwen: folds
MarcusVonRix: calls $0.08
*** FLOP *** [Jc 7c 7s]
MarcusVonRix: checks
angrystoc: bets $0.14
MarcusVonRix: calls $0.14
*** TURN *** [Jc 7c 7s] [Qc]
MarcusVonRix: checks
angrystoc: checks
*** RIVER *** [Jc 7c 7s Qc] [4h]
MarcusVonRix: bets $0.34
angrystoc: raises $0.34 to $0.68
MarcusVonRix: raises $0.46 to $1.14 and is all-in
angrystoc: calls $0.46
Now let's look at ranges:
Preflop I'm thinking he limp-called 5x on the Button, so it's still fairly wide but we'll say {22+, A9s+, ATo+, KT+, QT+, and probably any number of SCs} (I don't really know how to get these into PokerStove).
Flop Check/Call so I'm thinking a weaker flush draw, possibly any PP or a Jack, the possibility of set is there, but if we make our draw we're still ok and JJ is a small part of his range, so we have a lot of equity. So we're looking at {22+, QJ+, and SCs}
Turn This is could be a misplay on my part, he looks scared of the flush, and I thought slow playing was the best way to get the money in. However, he checks which makes a flush less likely. My range at this point is looking like this {22+, QJ+, and SCs}
River He thinks his hand is good, but we've got the nut flush so we reraise (this probably should've been a fold/shove). He 3 bets... Hmmm, JJ? Oh well, we're priced in and have a ton of equity against weaker flushes and overpairs.
Well, he showed J7o which didn't enter my ranges at any point. I don't know how differently I would've played the hand, but I do consider it a $1.50 lesson in why you proceed with caution on paired boards when you have a FD.
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