Quote Originally Posted by iopq
you should honestly stop second guessing yourself once 1/3 of your stack goes in
that's how you become a nit, by making folds that are ridiculous

It's not that I'm an "SPR freak" it's just that I make my plan for the hand on the flop with my raise, NOT on the turn
your plan on the flop is to put the rest of your stack in
IOPQ, jeez! There's so much wrong with those sentences.

1. You should always second guess yourself. It's poker, and you will always get into interesting spots.

2. The fold wasn't ridiculous if the stacks were offering only 2 to 1 instead of 3 to 1. The hand would actually be kinda interesting, and all you SPR freaks would be "committed."

3. Of course, we all try to plan on the flop (and before). Thinking "I'll just stack off since I've got 1/3 of my chips in" is some of the silliest advice you can get. Thinking "I'll stack off since that was my plan on the flop" is even worse. You get new information on later streets, and getting all hung up on SPR and "plans for the hands" that are fixed in granite can be stupid poker, imo.

4. Even PNLH has examples where the plan "doesn't work out," and new information leads you to believe you're beat. Their advice is NOT to "never fold after 1/3 of your stack is in the middle." They say "don't fold very often after 1/3 of your stack is in the middle."

5. Committing to being all-in once you've put in 1/3 just moves the nittiness temptation earlier in the hand. You either are willing to take the correct action when the stacks aren't just right, or you're unwilling. Forcing EVERY hand into its "perfect" SPR template is sub-optimal poker. They say so right there in PNLH.

6. If I sound certain of read that seems "off" to you, remember there was metagame and 100 hands against this guy I had available to help make my read. Some of the metagame comes into play with the donk-shove, so there's additional information there I didn't have on the flop. That probably has me narrowing villain's range more than you are, fwiw.

Let me explain why I posted the HH. I wanted Wonderland to think about playing weaker ranges against these fish who are 60/40+, and give some thoughts on how to work through the later streets when we do. I've already advised him to read PNLH. This hand I believe leaves Hero w/ less than 50% equity against villain's range, but is still a clear cut all-in call on the turn. I thought those two facts (especially the call being correct) would surprise Wonderland, and get him thinking more correctly in turn/river spots. This hand provided a good context in which to discuss big pot poker against fish.

I admit that I suck at poker. But at least I don't suck so bad at poker that I turn my brain off once I get 1/3 of my chips in. I don't think Wonderland and other micr-grinders ought to either, even when they've finished PNLH.