steal Q9, flop bottom two vs fish

35 hands on villain, he's loose (40vpip) and feels weak and station so far.
bb doesn't 3b much at all
button is pretty bad, reg 15-10 type, probably set-mining here pre

preflop?
flop sizing?

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25) 100bb
UTG+1 ($25) 100bb
MP1 ($1.63) 7bb
daven (MP2) ($31.27) 125bb
CO ($25) 100bb
BTN ($25.68) 103bb
SB ($22.81) 91bb
BB ($10.26) 41bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) daven is MP2
3 folds, daven raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.80, 3 players)
SB checks, daven bets $2.20, [color=#777777]

edit:
sounds like pre and flop ok, although could go bigger on flop - turn + river?


Turn: ($7.20, 2 players)
SB checks, daven bets $6.88, SB calls $6.88

River: ($20.96, 2 players)
SB checks, daven bets $6, SB goes all-in $12.88, daven calls $6.88

Open is a bit loose for me but prolly fine for you. Flop looks good to me.

Standard with fish in the blinds.

i'm opening this 100% as default unless i am given reason not to. flop i just bet close to pot because wet board, value town fish's Ax range etc etc

Pretty much what rpm said, nothing wrong with your flop sizing, though I'd personally bet $2.50-$2.75.

turn here
ok, i was going to discuss the turn in another thread but it creates clutter so i'll copy the posts that were made there before it got locked across to here:

Stacks:
UTG ($25) 100bb
UTG+1 ($25) 100bb
MP1 ($1.63) 7bb
daven (MP2) ($31.27) 125bb
CO ($25) 100bb
BTN ($25.68) 103bb
SB ($22.81) 91bb
BB ($10.26) 41bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) daven is MP2
3 folds, daven raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.80, 3 players)
SB checks, daven bets $2.20, BTN folds, SB calls $2.20

Turn: ($7.20, 2 players)
SB checks, daven bets $???

turn advice from locked thread:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Five dowlar make you howah!

Originally Posted by D0zer

$6, shove river, but there's no need to clutter up the BC with a thread for every street, just keep the convo going in the original thread. locking.

fuck by the time I figured out how to move posts you'd already c&p'd them.

sounds bout right, somewhere between 5/6.

Originally Posted by d0zer

fuck by the time I figured out how to move posts you'd already c&p'd them.

sorry about that bro, decided i'd save you the hassle - didn't even think that you might already be in the process of doing it. I sometimes need to think more, poker/etc

cool, anyway, i posted the hand with the idea of two threads in mind, i just wanted to check the abc-ness of the early streets before posting what i thought were the two important decisions in the hand = turn and river sizing

sounds like pre and flop are fine, turn was probably a little big. River is perhaps going to be contentious, or maybe consensus shove? my reasoning for the sizing i chose was value from all the bust draws that are now just weak middle-ish pair, value from weak top pair hands, and induce some spew a non-zero amount. This may be ridiculous, dunno. I mean, i bet the way through to size river jam, but there are definitely draws in villain's range and some villains get nervous with one pair vs a shove. Dunno. shove just obviously better here? the more i look at it, the more i think shove or a size that leaves villain about 1/2 a bb behind

Turn: ($7.20, 2 players)
SB checks, daven bets $6.88, SB calls $6.88

River: ($20.96, 2 players)
SB checks, daven bets $6,

I'd just ship river for 12 rather than betting 6. c/c doesn't seem good vs a weak station.

Nice hand anyway.

edit : read your reason for 6, I think its ok, vs stations I usually choose the bigger bet just because it tends to be more +EV overall even though the bottom of his range may fold.

river bet is horrrrrridddddd

why do you post threads with you making horrrid plays, or hypothetical awful plays. it's a horrible trend.

Originally Posted by bikes

river bet is horrrrrridddddd

why do you post threads with you making horrrid plays, or hypothetical awful plays. it's a horrible trend.

i've got into a habit of very thoroughly reviewing a few hands every day. Considering pretty much ALL options at every decision point in the hands. I think this is something that has value, my winrate and consistency of winrate have both increased since i started doing so anyway. Sometimes i come up with ideas for non-standard plays in certain situations, then occasionally i end up making these plays ingame (e.g. this one, where i assume that the abc-default play is to shove river, but where i instead bet river $6, and villain raises his one pair hand allin, and i snap-called to stack him) and generally i am comfortable during review regarding whether the play was terrible or not.

This one I was genuinely unsure of - I mean, there is a huge risk of results orientated reinforcement of what could be horrid play here - so i posted the hand. I guess I could obviously have just left out the river betsize that i chose in this Q9s hand, and instead left it blank and received the advice to shove. I figure i (and probably anyone else reading) gain more from the thread by being told something like "bet $6 is terrible, shove is about a million times better". I hope that answers your question.

I just skimmed over the last 20 hands i have posted. There are a few bad plays in there for sure, but a lot that seem more like straightforward questions re what action i should take in a particular spot.

Why do you get fancy with fish when you know the "abc-default" play? What you are calling "abc-default" here is really just optimizing profits vs droolers. You have a tendency of posting a lot of hands that are just about straightforward value vs megafish. These should not be particularly interesting spots for someone who's played as long as you.

Get fancy with the regs and post those hands, that will be far more interesting

Originally Posted by d0zer

Why do you get fancy with fish when you know the "abc-default" play? What you are calling "abc-default" here is really just optimizing profits vs droolers. You have a tendency of posting a lot of hands that are just about straightforward value vs megafish. These should not be particularly interesting spots for someone who's played as long as you.

Get fancy with the regs and post those hands, that will be far more interesting

true, good points, particularly the bold. I am choosing the hands to spend a lot of time on thinking about line options poorly. From now it's mostly going to be hands where i see flops with players i have sample size on. Cheers for the tip.

Ship river plz.