std flop 3b?

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (5 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2.85)
SB ($1.83)
BB ($8.15)
Hero (UTG) ($4.94)
MP ($4.41)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6, 6
Hero bets $0.12, 1 fold, Button calls $0.12, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.30) 8, 8, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Button raises $0.67, Hero raises $1.62, 1 fold

Total pot: $1.64

villian is 36/20 over 52 hands (18% 3b) (raise cbet 100% (2)

Fold pre, especially if there's a loose 3better that would make your life miserable in position against you when you have hand that doesn't play very well post OOP.

As played, I'd probably be betting smaller on the flop and folding to the raise.

dont fold pre, call any 3bet that gives you at least 15:1 and play it just for a set.
flop is a b/f and the sizing i think is right.

maybe im doing the math wrong, lets see

villian opens 20%
3b 18%
total vpip is 36%
so take his 3b away fom the 36% ( 0.18*0.36=0.06)
leaves him with a vpip of 30%
minus the 20% he is the PFR
and that leaves 10% cold call range. ?? which wont include his 18% 3b of premiums

i estimated a range (w/o 3bet hands)99-22,AJs-A8s,KJs-KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AJo-ATo,KJo+,QJo that he is prob. flatting

on flop of 8c 8s 3d

villian - 99-22,AJs-A8s,KJs-KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AJo-ATo,KJo+,QJo = 36.397%

hero - 6d6h = 63.603%

now i found something interesting that if i take away specific suits in stove the %'s change fairly dramatically. Like this

board 883

villian - 99-22,AJs-A8s,KJs-KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AJo-ATo,KJo+,QJo 47%
hero - 66 = 52%

thats wierd anyone kknow why?


*edit* forgot to make my point! lol anyway the first equity calculation was my range for him on flop which is why i 3b. im ahead more often and would like to keep it that way, there are ALOT of bad turn cards and not too many good ones so i would rather get more money in the pot or charge him more to hit one of those overs which is most of his range.

I would reraise this flop with any two vs this guy. Not folding pre.

yetttttiiiiiiiiiii

Originally Posted by supa

I would reraise this flop with any two vs this guy. Not folding pre.

??? Explain please.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

??? Explain please.

Yep, thanks for calling me out because that was a horrible blanket statement and wasn't even right.

Turning 66 into a bluff here is probably terribad. I was trying to make the point that he's a blind aggression type player (maybe a bad assumption with no reads except stats) that is bluffing a high % of time. What I should of said is we can reraise with all of our air because we have a shitton of fold equity, but we should be allowing him to fire again on the turn.

Realistically I probably would have reraised 66 here, but I see how bad that is. I wouldn't have done it with AA so really there's no reason to do it with 66. Which goes to show how wrong my original statement really was. Thanks for making me think.

Not sure why everyone wants to play this hand with an aggro villain IP vs us so bad.

Or maybe that's a bunch of crap because we'll be stuck in a guessing game with a lot of turns and rivers.

Originally Posted by supa

Or maybe that's a bunch of crap because we'll be stuck in a guessing game with a lot of turns and rivers.

* which is why i 3b. im ahead more often and would like to keep it that way, there are ALOT of bad turn cards and not too many good ones

exactly..

Originally Posted by Razvan729

dont fold pre, call any 3bet that gives you at least 15:1 and play it just for a set.
flop is a b/f and the sizing i think is right.

i suggest, for your own benefit, that you do some research into the different factors which influence this (EV of playing small pairs for "set-value"). your posts in here and other threads lead me to think that you believe there is some magic number which makes flatting small pairs OOP, with no plan of winning the hand except flopping a set, a good play. there are more factors at hand here than just stack : pot ratio

Originally Posted by rpm

i suggest, for your own benefit, that you do some research into the different factors which influence this (EV of playing small pairs for "set-value"). your posts in here and other threads lead me to think that you believe there is some magic number which makes flatting small pairs OOP, with no plan of winning the hand except flopping a set, a good play. there are more factors at hand here than just stack : pot ratio

i would really apreciate if you'd link me to some articles you found to be good and usefull about this.

i made this post cause for 4nl just flatting for a set is still a very profitable play at these stakes vs most villains w/o trying other kind of plays.

by no means i ment to imply that calling w/ 15:1 is the only way to play PP or by any means the best way.
sorry if that was understood.

Originally Posted by supa

Or maybe that's a bunch of crap because we'll be stuck in a guessing game with a lot of turns and rivers.

Not really a guessing game when villain is full of shit. I'm happy with pretty much any turn/river combination that doesn't counterfeit us.

Also about the worrying about villain being really aggro v us is silly. If this is a problem start 2xing and maybe even limping(oh snap) as adjustment to keeping pots small and still being way ahead of his iso/barreling range. If we are still uncomfortable and can't play 66 profitably from the HJ we should probably leave the table.

Both players are usually full of shit on boards like this. Hence, some players don't 3 bet these boards because it's repping such a narrow range.

That said, you proved you had the bigger penis that hand and sometimes that gets the money!

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

Not really a guessing game when villain is full of shit. I'm happy with pretty much any turn/river combination that doesn't counterfeit us.

Also about the worrying about villain being really aggro v us is silly. If this is a problem start 2xing and maybe even limping(oh snap) as adjustment to keeping pots small and still being way ahead of his iso/barreling range. If we are still uncomfortable and can't play 66 profitably from the HJ we should probably leave the table.

If we aren't counterfeited are we calling down happily? Or does bet sizing come into play here. I'd assume he'd be willing to stack off on a bluff, so if he wants to play for stacks then so do we yeah?

Originally Posted by supa

If we aren't counterfeited are we calling down happily? Or does bet sizing come into play here. I'd assume he'd be willing to stack off on a bluff, so if he wants to play for stacks then so do we yeah?

i would play for a stack on this flop. he was 3bing any pair 77+,ATs+,prob. any suited broadways, cold calling all lower pairs and bullshit broadway s.c. type hands( went through my HHs he 3b 77 and flatted 66 in two that went to showdown) but i must of missed during the actual gameplay.i mean he really NEVER has a good hand on this flop given his range. i want to 3b this flop as if a paint comes on turn and he shoves, im now in a dilemma that idk what to do. more than likely call and he shows me a pair he spiked, if he wants to bluff shove with 2 overs on this flop im happily calling if off.
with a range of {66-22,A9s-A2s,KJs-K9s,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,AJo-A9o,KTo+,QTo+}
i have roughly 70% equity. but alot of turns hurt my equity ALOT. so to keep decisions easier for me and more difficlut for my opponent i re-raise.

Originally Posted by acg123

so to make him fold his bluffs and donate money to his nuts i re-raise.

mmmhmmmmm