software, datamining, site - need advice/info on all

A while ago I posted in here saying I was about to jump over from SnG's to ring games. For one reason or another I never got round to it, but I plan to start now-ish. My sharkscope hud 6 month freebie has come to an end, so it seems now is the perfect time.

So, as I intend to take this seriously and grind my way up from $10, I have been reading the stickies (all very good btw) and I figure I need some software. I want to run a hud with stats on players, be able to analyse my game and my own stats & datamine like there is no tomorrow.

So as a newbie, what would be a good site to start playing on baring in mind the hud & datamining needs, (I have heard pokerstars doesn't allow datamining) and what is a good selection of software to enable the above? Or should I not worry about datamining and just concentrate on playing good poker and building up my own stats?

Also, has anyone ever bought in stats on players in bulk from data mining sites? Is that worth doing to get me some inital stats on players?

Thanks

Depending on so many things. Where you live, do you have RB on some sites, what bonus's have you used up?

I would personally just go to stars to start. You can get a ton of tables at micro stakes and HM is free for a bit and the micro edition is cheaper than the full version and you can use it right up till $25NL before upgrading. It's no cheaper to buy the full version so don't waste costs.

Buying hands is a good option and cheap, but the micros have such a changeover that you will only get a shitload of hands on the bad regs or big multitablers which won't be hard to figure out anyway. I buy hands before I move to a new stake.

More info would make this easier to help with decisions though.

Datamining is absolutely meaningless at microstakes. There are so many players at those stakes that you will rarely build a large sample of hands on the villains, as you won't play with the same too often. Not to mention, you can keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of microstakes players are bad, and play based on that assumption until proven otherwise. It's not hard to play against fish (value bet often, bluff less often).

As far as a HUD/tracking software, obviously look into PokerTracker 3 or Holdem Manager. They do the same things, but people have their own preference.

And you will find the two major sites (PS and FTP) don't allow datamining. This doesn't mean you can't buy hands from other players or sites and import into your tracking program, but it is against the rules to do so.

I think datamining is illegal on most to all sites and wouldn't recommend you do it possibly ever but especially if you're starting out. Build your own database and find your own way.

Thanks.

So scrap the datamining idea then.

Live in UK. Used up bonus on Stars (only recently joined & never cleared bonus ) & Titan, and have no rakeback deal yet, but plan to look into that as soon as I pick a site. But as I will only get to play say 10-12 hrs pw, maybe 4 $10nl tables at a time, I wonder how much bonus I will be able to clear anyway.

My reservations with just using stars is a. apparently harder to beat. b. used/wasted bonus there.

As for software, am I right in thinking HM would take care of HUD & opponent data collection and personal data collection & analysis?

Will pokertracker do that too? I didn't think PT came with a hud.

(I should really do more research before asking you guys to give me all the answers)

Play stars till you hit at least $25NL depending on your BR guidelines you give yourself. Then go to Party Poker for a while and play there. They have a good bonus that clears fairly easily at $25NL compared to others. After that we can set up a Full Tilt account with RB but until your playing at least $50NL or better yet $100NL the bonus is good but slow, so I would wait. If you think you need something after that then we can discuss it. You may find that a good site and RB or VPP's is all you need and will earn more than some bonus on a smaller site. IF you have a FT or Party account but haven't deposited yet PM me and I will tell you how to get around them for RB or Bonus.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Will pokertracker do that too? I didn't think PT came with a hud.

PT3 comes with a HUD.

Originally Posted by jyms

Play stars till you hit at least $25NL depending on your BR guidelines you give yourself.

pretty good advice

Originally Posted by jyms

Then go to Party Poker for a while and play there. They have a good bonus that clears fairly easily at $25NL compared to others. After that we can set up a Full Tilt account with RB but until your playing at least $50NL or better yet $100NL the bonus is good but slow, so I would wait.

for a non-US player there are a bunch of good bonus whoring options if he's just interested in free cash. I'm thinking of spending one month clearing all the relevant (i.e. worthwhile hourly) i-poker bonuses, for example. Paging tonyb for info!

Yeah, definitely PM TonyB79 for more info if you're thinking of bonus whoring. He has a list of like 53 bonuses for non-us players. He was really helpful and patient explaining everything too.

Well the good news, I've started playing ing games, and I'm enjoying it, and attempting to use the new skills I'm klearning here. Also, I have HM, and have successfully managed to get it importing hands from stars.

The bad news, I can't get the fdam hud to work! It recognises the tables, but I don't see any stats.

ANy ideas anyone?

Originally Posted by daven

for a non-US player there are a bunch of good bonus whoring options if he's just interested in free cash. I'm thinking of spending one month clearing all the relevant (i.e. worthwhile hourly) i-poker bonuses, for example. Paging tonyb for info!

I've tried bonus whoring on Titan an bwin, and it wasn't worth it. I cashed out on bwin after just a couple of hundred hands. If you can handle the software - and the only way I imagine you can is if you stick to 4 tables or less - I found it harder to play 4 tables on bwin than 12 tables on Full Tilt.
I keep coming back to FTP... For me the software and painless cashouts are worth the additional rake (bonuses just mean less rake temporarily). And I haven't found other sites to be softer. The fields might look softer because they have a bigger average vpip per table, or more halfstacks... but there are other factors like how they play post-flop - even if the majority has preflop hand selection down on FT and stars (like omg wow skill game) - they still monkey around a lot post-flop...
It also matters how the software looks and handles - for example on bwin there is no waitlist - so table selection is very limited. On both bwin and titan (ipoker) the tables pop up once you need to act - doesn't matter that you haven't acted on the table that popped up previously, and it won't pop up again.
If that doesn't tilt the crap out of you then you potentially have an advantage over people like me over there :P
See for yourself... can't hurt. Just make sure they allow you to cash out any time (party poker might not - check terms of use)

Bonus whoring isn't for everyone, no doubt. You have to change sites fairly often, and each time get used to different software, different players, etc. You can't really get settled in one place.

For some people, getting settled and used to one site is super important, and those people might be better just finding the best RB deal they can on a site they like, and staying put.

That said, the software is essentially the same across all the sites on a network, so if you whore your way through say, ten iPoker sites in a row you will be using essentially the same software and playing against the same player pool the whole way. And when you're getting WAY more than any RB deal to play on each site for a short period, it can be a pretty attractive proposition.

So its up to you. If you just want to stay on a site and grind away, thats a perfectly valid choice - stay at Stars until you get to 25NL, get RB at somewhere like FT (jyms can help you with that) and stay there. If you want to get a better return and you're prepared to move around a bit, then drop me a PM and I can help you out. At 10NL there are not a lot of options, but there are some, and once you move up to 25/50NL and higher there are loads.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Well the good news, I've started playing ing games, and I'm enjoying it, and attempting to use the new skills I'm klearning here. Also, I have HM, and have successfully managed to get it importing hands from stars.

The bad news, I can't get the fdam hud to work! It recognises the tables, but I don't see any stats.

ANy ideas anyone?

Check your "instant hand history options" in stars...make sure that its saving your hand histories..there is a "how to set up HEM for P okerstars" in the FAQ...theres a folder for importing data to the HUD in the HEM software..I am not on my laptop where i have HEM installed or I could give you more info..that FAQ will explain a lot

Thanks, but I sorted it at the HM forum