playing style questions

this is a long two questions, but i think they are good ones. thanks in advance for replies. recently i have moved from my generally tight aggressive playing style, to a more "sharky" style, incorporating none-to-two gapped connectors, suited or not, and sometimes, suited cards, connecting or not. i have implemented a formula for this. when facing a raise in late position (sb or bb), i call under this situations:

4XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited cards (got this one from element), or suited connectors

6XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited connectors

8XBB raise: call w/ suited connectors(0-2 gapped)

I have 3 questions as to how to handle other conflicts im baffled on...

First off, What is so beneficial about playing the suited connectors or connectors in position? i mean if im going to call a raise w/ them anyway, i just dont see the difference. i am very confident in my ability to read hands and to play/bet/raise in order to get information for myself. granted there will be times when there will be times when ppl go all-in w/ gigantic raises that i can't call w/, but i definately would say that doesnt happen nearly enough to where that would be enough of a reason to not play s.c.'s in early or mid position. plus, if raises are made behind, even re-raises that you dont think will result in an all-in, wouldn't your cards odds be favorable to call anyway? (Just a thought after reading HOHE).

Secondly, what do you all recommend when it comes to calling w/ mid to low pairs. I usually dont call w/ 77's or lower unless the raise is representing a higher pair, usually 4XBB. today, i folded 77 in a big pot that was raised 3$ on a .25/.5 table, so i folded barely, according to my limits. however, the flop came down J7J, and the two others left in the pot went at it. it turned out that i would've made a killing on this hand had i not folded, after seeing their revealed cards after the river. what is everyone's recommendation then when it comes to facing raises w/ these kinds of cards (88 or lower i guess.)

Thirdly, is there anything blatantly wrong w/ my current strategy that you think is not helpful to me. any suggestions for change or advice on other styles would also be appreciated. thanks again for any advice, sorry this was so long.

oh yeah, one last thing. when you all play s.c.'s, does that include ax suited and/or something like q9 or j8? thanks again.

OK here's my answers. Keep in mind im a 400 NL full ring player and am used to dealing with a lot of sharks lol.

Answer to Question #1) The reason you play suited connectors with position (as opposed to without position) is

1) You can raise a bet on the flop and give yourself a free card on the turn if you are on a draw (which suited connectors generally are)

2) It is very important when drawing to a straight or flush to have position on the person you are drawing. This will give you much cheaper turns and rivers and you will be paid off a lot more.

3) Semi-bluffing becomes a lot easier, since you have position. The guy has a hard time playing back you.

4) It is easier to know if you hit a pair whether you are ahead or not.


Answer to Question #2) This depends on whether or not you have position on the pre-flop raiser (PFR). If I have position I call up to 4.5x BB extra. If I dont have position I call up to 3x BB extra. You really cant tell if they have a higher pocket pair or not by their raise, people raise with all sorts of weird stuff.

Your goal should be to play for a set and destack the PFR if you hit. However, you should look for times when you're ahead of the PFR and make a move then (i.e. he checks to you)


Answer to Question #3) Calling large raises with suited connectors out of position is not a good idea genearlly. However if you have position you should call up to 4x BB. So calling a 4+x BB raise with suited connectors from the blinds is generally a bad idea.

Also, you shouldnt be calling with any suited cards you see or Axs (with x < 9), as both have problems in raised pots. Axs only does well if you hit your flush, otherwise the hand is complete trash. Similar problems with the other random suited cards.

Also don't call with connectors, for the most part they are not that strong. Hands like 64o are for the most part garbage, though they are better than hands like 72o. Probably the only ones I would think about are 87o, 98o, T9o, and JTo and I would never call a raise with them, I would just raise with them to try to steal the blinds and/or a late position limper. So my suggestion is dont call a raise with connectors, they just arent that good.


Answer to Question #4) There are different kinds of suited connectors. The strongest is JTs, and all non-gapped suited cards are very good as well. I would include: 45s, 56s, 67s, 78s, 89s, 9Ts as well. QJs plays very different and is kind of a weird hand. It is a very dominated hand so be careful when calling raises with it. In calling a raiser JTs is better than QJs and about the same as KQs.

One-gappers are mostly OK as well: such as 46s, 57s, 68s, 79s, 8Ts, 9Js.
TQs falls into the same catagory as QJs. KJs is a completely different breed of hand, similar to KQs, and isnt really a suited connector. Obviously one-gappers are not as strong as 0-gappers so keep this in mind when calling raises (i.e. be more strict on how much you call).

I am not as big a fan of calling with two-gappers, though if I do call I'll call with 96s, T7s, and J8s as they are the strongest three. Q9s is pretty much garbage and KTs is good for attacking late position limpers and the blinds and thats about it.

thanks, thats awesome. im beginning to understand the flaws i had in my strategy. i usually would've always claimed that qj suited has to be more powerful than 89s, but, especially in a raised pot, that just isn't the case considering the high probability for counterfeited cards.

Nice exposition, spino.

More on why 'high-card suited connectors' (QJs, JTs) do not play like 'average suited connectors'.

When you decide to play suited connectors, you prefer to have 'live' cards. By 'live' cards, I mean that you don't want to have the same-value card as your opponent, and you also are better off if your opponent isn't holding any cards you need to make the straight.

Supposing the raiser has a strong hand like AK, you'd rather have 89s than KJs. With KJ, if you hit your K, you're still beat. And if you make the K-high straight, you can also still be beat. It takes a very particular board for KJ to beat AK.

Another example: You'd rather have 76s than JTs when playing against QQ. The queens block one end of your straight. Suppose the flop is K98: With the JT, you have an OESD, but don't really have 8 outs, because two queens are not 'live'. It's precarious to rely on ALL of your outs with High Card SCs because of the reasonable chance of cards you need already being in someone else's hand.

I hope I explained that ok. Now you never know what your opponent holds, but the high-card suited connectors are often dominated by being overlapped as in the first example, or are deceiving because outs you are counting may not be live.

EasyT

Good explanation all. Thanks.

Wow this is an awesome thread. Definitely helpful as right now I'm pretty much TAG and I know the good LAGs are gonna eat me when I get my BR to the point to move up. Need work on reads badly as well but this is great info with explanations.

Originally Posted by dstir2

this is a long two questions, but i think they are good ones. thanks in advance for replies. recently i have moved from my generally tight aggressive playing style, to a more "sharky" style, incorporating none-to-two gapped connectors, suited or not, and sometimes, suited cards, connecting or not. i have implemented a formula for this. when facing a raise in late position (sb or bb), i call under this situations:

4XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited cards (got this one from element), or suited connectors

6XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited connectors

8XBB raise: call w/ suited connectors(0-2 gapped)

I have 3 questions as to how to handle other conflicts im baffled on...

First off, What is so beneficial about playing the suited connectors or connectors in position? i mean if im going to call a raise w/ them anyway, i just dont see the difference. i am very confident in my ability to read hands and to play/bet/raise in order to get information for myself. granted there will be times when there will be times when ppl go all-in w/ gigantic raises that i can't call w/, but i definately would say that doesnt happen nearly enough to where that would be enough of a reason to not play s.c.'s in early or mid position. plus, if raises are made behind, even re-raises that you dont think will result in an all-in, wouldn't your cards odds be favorable to call anyway? (Just a thought after reading HOHE).

Secondly, what do you all recommend when it comes to calling w/ mid to low pairs. I usually dont call w/ 77's or lower unless the raise is representing a higher pair, usually 4XBB. today, i folded 77 in a big pot that was raised 3$ on a .25/.5 table, so i folded barely, according to my limits. however, the flop came down J7J, and the two others left in the pot went at it. it turned out that i would've made a killing on this hand had i not folded, after seeing their revealed cards after the river. what is everyone's recommendation then when it comes to facing raises w/ these kinds of cards (88 or lower i guess.)

Thirdly, is there anything blatantly wrong w/ my current strategy that you think is not helpful to me. any suggestions for change or advice on other styles would also be appreciated. thanks again for any advice, sorry this was so long.

i dont recommend playing suited cards in the blinds to a raise, you are out of position for the next few rounds.

i dont recommend them unless your on the button or cutoff

and they at least need to be close in rank, playing Q4s is not worth it unless there is a raise and at least 3 callers.

do not play these hands from out of position .. let me repeat this .. DO NOT PLAY WEAK HANDS OUT OF POSITION.

you want to act last on the flop, turn and river. learn to throw your hands away alot .. you will miss .. alot.

position is so important, you gather more information on the strength of the opponents hand .. AA and KK will try pushing you off the pot so he doesnt get out drawn, learn to look for the sign. AK is going to try to buy the pot from you when he misses, learn to tell the difference between the two.

position is so important, it helps you from losing more money by making better decisions to the available information.. and being in late position gives you very important information.

always toss your hands in face of a raise and reraise, unless you hit your set/straight who cares if you have an open ended straight draw and you can bust two people .. when its raised and reraised, you stand a high chance of just bleeding chips.

Originally Posted by DrumzCT

Wow this is an awesome thread. Definitely helpful as right now I'm pretty much TAG and I know the good LAGs are gonna eat me when I get my BR to the point to move up. Need work on reads badly as well but this is great info with explanations.

if you want to learn to read hands decent, play lots of limit poker .. it helps you learn different flop textures and why people bet certain flops.

no limit helps you understand bet amounts, the next peice of the puzzle is flop textures

alright element, maybe im retarded, but i'm extremely confused. its impossible to act last on the flop, turn and river unless you are at the cutoff or button and none of the blinds stay in the hand. If I want to act last in every round, why should i be playing suited connectors in the blinds in a min. raised pot? should i be looking to play these hands at the cutoff or button instead?

or maybe im just confused w/ the semantics of being in position. I thought having position, was late position(i.e. small and big blinds). I thought that by playing particular hands in the blinds (late position) pre-flop, you could bet into higher cards when you've hit a strong flop, causing them to raise back into you, simply pot-commiting them. Plus, if you didnt hit a particularly strong flop, you could check around hoping that by the time it got back to you the pot odds would be in your favor enough to stay in the hand. basically i thought it was important in order to control the tempo of the betting round after the flop. but this just isn't the case if you're suggesting i need to be acting last on every round of betting. have i confused you enough yet, i know im confused myself?

Originally Posted by dstir2

alright element, maybe im retarded, but i'm extremely confused. its impossible to act last on the flop, turn and river unless you are at the cutoff or button and none of the blinds stay in the hand. If I want to act last in every round, why should i be playing suited connectors in the blinds in a min. raised pot? should i be looking to play these hands at the cutoff or button instead?

or maybe im just confused w/ the semantics of being in position. I thought having position, was late position(i.e. small and big blinds). I thought that by playing particular hands in the blinds (late position) pre-flop, you could bet into higher cards when you've hit a strong flop, causing them to raise back into you, simply pot-commiting them. Plus, if you didnt hit a particularly strong flop, you could check around hoping that by the time it got back to you the pot odds would be in your favor enough to stay in the hand. basically i thought it was important in order to control the tempo of the betting round after the flop. but this just isn't the case if you're suggesting i need to be acting last on every round of betting. have i confused you enough yet, i know im confused myself?

If you're the button you're guaranteed to act last on the flop and after. THAT IS WHY YOU PLAY SUITED CONNECTORS ON THE BUTTON AND NOT THE BLINDS.

Originally Posted by dstir2

alright element, maybe im retarded, but i'm extremely confused. its impossible to act last on the flop, turn and river unless you are at the cutoff or button and none of the blinds stay in the hand. If I want to act last in every round, why should i be playing suited connectors in the blinds in a min. raised pot? should i be looking to play these hands at the cutoff or button instead?

or maybe im just confused w/ the semantics of being in position. I thought having position, was late position(i.e. small and big blinds). I thought that by playing particular hands in the blinds (late position) pre-flop, you could bet into higher cards when you've hit a strong flop, causing them to raise back into you, simply pot-commiting them. Plus, if you didnt hit a particularly strong flop, you could check around hoping that by the time it got back to you the pot odds would be in your favor enough to stay in the hand. basically i thought it was important in order to control the tempo of the betting round after the flop. but this just isn't the case if you're suggesting i need to be acting last on every round of betting. have i confused you enough yet, i know im confused myself?

blinds are only considered in late position on one round of betting.

when i refer to late position, im referring to the cutoff or button.

i prefer to be last to act on all rounds of betting (button is about as good as its gonna get preflop), so i have more information to work with, and if i flop strong, i can control the betting.


your goin to flop the same amount of flops whether you play 64o UTG or on the button.. but you would always want to have the most information with you before getting involved and playing the hand out.

its like bringing a gun to a knife fight, you want to be more prepared then your opponents

Originally Posted by dstir2

4XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited cards (got this one from element), or suited connectors

6XBB raise: call w/ connectors(0-2 gapped), suited connectors

8XBB raise: call w/ suited connectors(0-2 gapped)

This is going to leak so many chips from your stack. You cannot just go calling large pf raises with marginal hands all day and expect to make money. It's akin to playing craps or slots, and the odds are definately not in your favor.

First off, connectors and gappers generally suck. They arent going to hit enough to make calling a raise with them even close to profitable. Really, you should just fold these to the blinds in most situations.

Second off, you are right in thinking there is a place in good poker for suited connectors, suited gappers and the like. First off, make sure they are 56s - TJs. Ill be calling a preflop raise alot more with 67s than with QJs, because of the card domination concept that someone else mensioned on this thread.

Third off, YOU NEED TO HAVE POSITION WITH THESE HANDS.

and fourth, YOU NEED TO HAVE POSITION WITH THESE HANDS!! You see misguided on the concept of position. Late position is on the button. Late position means you act LAST for each round of betting, not first (aka you are in the blinds, or UTG) The reasons for this are that (1) you get to control the betting for the round, (2) you can get more information about what other people have before acting, and (3) your implied odds go up significantly if you have position on everyone else in the hand (especially the preflop raiser). When you hit, you want to get paid off, and when you hit, you dont want to get fuxored by a better hand.

As far as implied odds go, ill call raises all day with mid suited connectors if I have position on the raiser, especially if I think he has a monster hand (AA, KK) because my implied odds for destacking him go up signifcantly if he doesnt have the dicipline to drop his hand after the flop. (same concept with low pps)

As a side comment, it sounds like your game is ultra passive if you want to be calling so much. Raising >> calling, by far. Passive game = leak chips and -EV. Also, it seems to me like you might want to stick more to your tight aggressive playstyle for a bit longer, until you fully understand the concept of position.

thanks for the explanation, i guess i just misunderstood the concept of position, thinking late position implied late position in the first round of betting, i.e. the blinds. i understand now the difference and the major discrepancy between them. lol. i can kind of see now why some of my hands weren't going so well.

Great info here. Nice to see it fleshed out so clearly.

Great thread has helped me improve my game a bunck - and I am finally getting a hold of "position"

what do you guys think about this thought?

I've been playing for a while now at the .5/1$ - 1/2$ on pokerstars and found this to be very profitable.

Now keep this in mind. ONLY DO THIS WHEN YOU HAVE POSITION!!! lol
here it goes. I personally like to play suited connector and even more suited 2 gappers like 6-4 in a 3-4xBB raised preflop pot, and here are my reasons why.

1-> playing a hand like 6-4 suited gives you the advantage of hitting a "sneaky" open ended str8.

2-> since they are suited its not much of an edge but its still there.

3->if you hit 2 pairs with the 6-4 and the other guy makes his hand (lets say TPTK) the odds are that you are going to make lots of $$ because he is never going to put you on a 6-4, especially after he raised the pot preflop. This also applies when you hit a set on the flop, its hard to put you on those types of cards which means more $$ for you. All this extra money that you make will (if you're good enough to make this play profit) should give you a +EV (it does for me anyways)

Now I think that the main point in all of this is that I found out that when people raise preflop with cards like AJ,AQ,AK, etc... and hit the flop with either TPTK or similar then tend to stay hooked on them and can't give them up and that is where cards like 6-4suited become profitable because PEOPLE TRAP THEMSELVES!!!! with them.

Yes, No???? what do you guys think?

ok, the only time you should be calling raises with suited cards is in late position (button, cutoff, 1 off cutoff maybe). it is MUCH MUCH more likely to flop a straight or straight draw with a suited connector than a suited gapper, keep that in mind, and its also just as concealed as a gapper. you really should not make it a habit to get excited over a suited connector or gapper and be calling big raises with it every time. its a thing you do when you feel like it, dont treat them like aces.

I have a quick questions about suited & unsuited connectors/gappers

Spinoli, you wrote that the same hand unsuited is garbage compared to the suited hand....I have always read (albeit in many newbie guides)..that playing a hand suited only adds a 3% edge as compared to unsuited. And the always add the old saying "If you wouldnt play it unsuited, you shouldn't play it suited...etc, etc"

Maybe its because I dont have a pair of cajones, but I would always be worried about my 8 kicker to the flush is no good. So why do you see suited as good and unsuited as garbage?

Just trying to understand this concept. Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by BobbySalami

I have a quick questions about suited & unsuited connectors/gappers

Spinoli, you wrote that the same hand unsuited is garbage compared to the suited hand....I have always read (albeit in many newbie guides)..that playing a hand suited only adds a 3% edge as compared to unsuited. And the always add the old saying "If you wouldnt play it unsuited, you shouldn't play it suited...etc, etc"

Maybe its because I dont have a pair of cajones, but I would always be worried about my 8 kicker to the flush is no good. So why do you see suited as good and unsuited as garbage?

Just trying to understand this concept. Thanks in advance!

Suited adds more to the value of the hand when:
1. There are a less people in the pot. That means less boats, less people with suited cards bigger than yours.
2. You're heads up with someone with a big pair. Then when you hit your flush, your opponent doesn't have it.
3. Against very loose opponents who will call with any two suited cards sometimes your flush is best

Against tough opponents the value decreases.

the reason suited matters is because even though it only adds a small % to your chance of winning, the odds of winning with the hand are dismal in the first place. adding that little bit is really important, because its a lot compared to the overall chance of winning. What that advice is saying is, KTs = KTo, J6s = J6o.

i think in general, its good advice to raise with suited connectors, gappers, whatever it is you're playing. i just raised 57o from the button, and doubled my buy-in solely because i could check and wait for the turn to bring me trip 7's, and the toolbag with tptk didn't bet the flop because he likely wanted to check/raise me. position just gives you chances to exploit other people's mistakes more. i also think raising with these hands is key. i will limp suited connectors and sometimes suited gappers into a raise with position, but nothing else, not without position, and only if i think i can get a big payday for hitting. otherwise, i just look at them as good hands to steal with, and if i hit, that's just gravy.

Okay, those make sense, thanks!

haha. thanks all for the advice. unfortunately, because i constantly think, maybe overthink sometimes, i've come up with some more questions about suited connectors and playing them w/ position.

1) Why limit the call w/ sc's to only a 4XBB raise? Along with the implied odds of knocking off a big stack w/ a big pair, why not extend the calling limits on this play. Suited connectors, 5-6 being the being the best against AA, is a 23.1% winner in the matchup, the other s.c.'s a little lower in the 22% or so. Those aren't bad odds to call a bigger raise preflop w/ in my opinion. If someone raises strong, especially when others ahead of you call, an amount greater than 4XBB, why not call w/ the possibility of a huge payoff? Should the calling limits set alter depending on whether the cards are one or two gapped? It just seems really limiting to me to only play s.c.'s w/ such a measly raise. Most ppl w/ top hands will bet more than that, resulting in few situations in which you could actually play these potentially lethal hands.

2)Is it smart, in late position, to possibly raise w/ strong s.c.'s, such as 89 or jt? i figure, not only does it drive out limpers, but it disguises your hand as premium (only adding to your bluffing capabilities if you sense weakness after the flop), and it also draws out those in early position who are trying to slowplay, thus allowing you to get a better feel for what they hold. just a thought.

3)I have been playing many hands, mostly connectors, in the small blind when everyone has just limped in, and im getting pot odds of 6 to 1 or greater, is this smart?, even though i will be acting first after the flop?

4)Lastly, what are high suited cards worth. I find myself in middle position w/ A10 suited a lot facing a raise from someone in early position most likely holding ak or aq. what pot odds should i be looking for in order to call against these kinds of raises, or how many other ppl need to be involved in the pot?

Just want to hear some thoughts on all of this.
Sorry so long, but I think this topic is really interesting. Thanks.

typically bigger raises mean a more limited field, meaning worse odds for your suited connector. you cant call a 5x bb with 56s when you are sitting right beside the raiser with 6 people left to act.

1. The odds of a suited connector beating aces is 20+%, but that is by the river, where many draws can come through. generally, against a high pocket, you can't count on being able to draw (position helps with this). so, you're looking at flopping a better hand than aces, and the odds of that are down around 5%. You can still call a 5xBB raise, but that might help explain why the hand is pretty fragile and needs all the help it can get.

2. I think raising with suited connectors should be a sometimes thing, not an all the time thing. If you've folded your last 15 hands, and you get 89s on the button, go ahead and raise it if its not contested preflop. Most of the time, you'll get 1-2 callers, put out a continuation bet on the flop, and take it down there. If you hit it big, good stuff, if you miss, check/fold the turn on out. Don't do it if the table is loose/full of calling stations.

3. Your choice here. Everyone has their SB preferences. I tend to play generally what you do, more if the table is looser, less if tighter. I usually only play from the sb with many limpers if my hand is very marginal though (e.g. unsuited connector.)

4. I personally think Axs is junk. If I'm facing a raise, I fold A10s, A10o, AJs, AJo, and depending on the situation i might fold aq. i probably should fold it more than I do.

Originally Posted by dstir2

1) Why limit the call w/ sc's to only a 4XBB raise? Along with the implied odds of knocking off a big stack w/ a big pair, why not extend the calling limits on this play. Suited connectors, 5-6 being the being the best against AA, is a 23.1% winner in the matchup, the other s.c.'s a little lower in the 22% or so. Those aren't bad odds to call a bigger raise preflop w/ in my opinion. If someone raises strong, especially when others ahead of you call, an amount greater than 4XBB, why not call w/ the possibility of a huge payoff? Should the calling limits set alter depending on whether the cards are one or two gapped? It just seems really limiting to me to only play s.c.'s w/ such a measly raise. Most ppl w/ top hands will bet more than that, resulting in few situations in which you could actually play these potentially lethal hands.

i like to go by the 4x rule .. when people start raising more then that preflop with AA KK QQ JJ i tend to stick to only paired hole cards in the attempt to hit a set on the flop with no possible over card sets and bust them... this is keeping in mind that your opponents are buying in for the max ... if a short stack raises it 4x the BB or greater, i fold unless i have a strong hand like AA KK AK QQ.. this situation you absolutely have to hit the flop hard because a short stack will be pot committed and your goign to a show down.. make sure you have a strong enough hand..

with this being said .. i look at 1 and 2 gappers almost alike .. i love to play them suited or unsuited .. if its suited i dont put much stock in it connecting with a flush as your preflop raiser could possibly hold a high 1 flush card and will chase that flush and/or your up against AK suited.

other things to take into consideration here is how many people are calling raises preflop .. whats the average amount of people in a limp pot vs people ina raised pot .. if its almost only 2 people in a raise pot, then yes suited or unsuited 1 and 2 gappers are great in late position against an EP raiser.

most importantly, just becuase you hit a flop .. a pair or two pair, you need to learn to let these hands go against alot of aggression, expecially if an Ace is on the flop .. running into AA in this situation with two pair is deadly..

you need to make a game of it, while your not in hand .. watch the preflop raiser and his callers and see what they flip over ... figure out is your opponent more likely to raise more with a stronger hand and raise less with a weaker hand, and vice versa .. very important to get a read on the preflop raiser and put him on a range of hands before calling so you can compare flop textures to what you put them on .. and of course your reads are goign to be wrong quite a bit expecially at first..

Originally Posted by dstir2

2)Is it smart, in late position, to possibly raise w/ strong s.c.'s, such as 89 or jt? i figure, not only does it drive out limpers, but it disguises your hand as premium (only adding to your bluffing capabilities if you sense weakness after the flop), and it also draws out those in early position who are trying to slowplay, thus allowing you to get a better feel for what they hold. just a thought.

if there is a few limpers in before, i will tend to raise around 4x the BB or better if i think i can take down the pot righ there .. but generally i only do this when its folded around to me.. and if the blinds figure out i'm stealing, i'll wait until i have a monster and let them play back at me the next time around im in late position with AA KK QQ JJ

Originally Posted by dstir2

3)I have been playing many hands, mostly connectors, in the small blind when everyone has just limped in, and im getting pot odds of 6 to 1 or greater, is this smart?, even though i will be acting first after the flop?

if there is plenty of limpers i will go ahead and play getting 6 to 1 .. i'm hoping to his a strong hand, not necessary the flush draw as i wont put too much excitement on it when i hit as for fear for something hitting a higher flush .. i will bet it up when i hit, but will fold to a big reraise (indicated A or K high flush)

Originally Posted by dstir2

4)Lastly, what are high suited cards worth. I find myself in middle position w/ A10 suited a lot facing a raise from someone in early position most likely holding ak or aq. what pot odds should i be looking for in order to call against these kinds of raises, or how many other ppl need to be involved in the pot?

i would fold facing a raise with this hand ... most of the time top pair will win a pot, so your dominated.. if you are first one into the pot in middle to late position, raise to take it down now or show dominance in the hand .. if someone in late position has AK they will let you know on the flop with a hefty reraise... if someone with AK just calls your flop, turn and river bets with a pair of aces, just thank the poker gods, he was passive and let you off easy.

Originally Posted by dstir2

Just want to hear some thoughts on all of this.
Sorry so long, but I think this topic is really interesting. Thanks.

no problem, i'm goin to give my thoughts and i hope the better players on this forum will correct me so i will know better, the point of the forums is to pass around ideas and discuss them to help make us all better players.

Very helpfull thread, this is what i've been looking for Kudos to Element187 and dstir2 on their very useful insights.

you should be listening more to rondavu and rilla as they are the experts, im merely giving what i do in certain situations.

yeah, i just like to pretend i have usefull insight, when in all reality, it'd be best to not listen to me.