playing pocket pairs 88+

What is the best way to play them?

I don't want to raise high at 2nl in case someone has a higher card and pairs it on the flop...but at the same time I want as few ppl as possible to see the flop...

Move up to where people respect your raises.

But then that means I haven't actually beaten 2NL, which is the aim.

For she smaller ones (88,99) it really depends on the table situation and your position. For TT+, I would be hard pressed to think of a case where I would not raise (unless you start trying to trap with your big hands).

With 88, 99 or smaller pairs you can call a small raise in position and hope to flop a set. You can also consider limping behind one or two limpers and again hunt for a set. You can also raise limpers if some of them are capable of limp/folding and you think you have a good chance of taking the hand right there. If you don't take the hand preflop, c-bet on most flops if you have only one or two opponents even if you don't get your set and see what happens. At worse, you will face a raise and have to fold. At best, you will take the hand. In between, you get to see one or possibly two more cards for another chance to get your set. Beware that playing sets in multiway pots with lots of players is a recipe to go broke.

In unopened pots, you would normally have to raise 88-99, even in early position. If it is not a table of donks, there is a chance they will respect a UTG raise. If not, then c-bet on dry flops and take it from there.

Ok, I've worked out some sort of system on the tables I'm playing.

Basically I'm limping a lot more hands against these guffballs and taking down pots post-flop or folding postflop. Seems to be working, I've had a really good night.

No no no. Not SYS-TEM. RAN-GES.

Noted.

Depends on a whole bunch of things. At 2nl with anything under TT i would just call in ep and raise limpers in LP. If it's raised before it gets to me then i have a few things to think about.

First what is the effective stack size and where did the raise come from. When considering stack size you just wanna ask yourself is it big enough to set hunt. People disagree on how big is big enough. At 2nl i would say 12xbb is just on the edge of big enough. So If it is 12xbb or better i just limp. Unless it's a button raise and i'm in one of the blinds. Then i 3-bet a lot with any pair. Then i c-bet most any flop. If button 4-bets me i fold all but the best pairs. At 2nl a 4-bet is usually QQ+ or AK.

If stacks are to small to set hunt i play kinda the same except flating a PF raise is never an option for me. If a player raises before me i 3-bet or fold. I never call i don't even slow play aces

Originally Posted by littleogre

At 2nl with anything under TT i would just call in ep

Limping 88-JJ in Ep is bad - at a typical 2NL table you'll be playing a multiway limped pot oop which with a hand like 88-JJ is not profitable.

After all these aren't speculative hands like A3s or 98s which may sometimes benefit from limping at loose passive tables - it should be raised as just calling wastes most of the potential.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

Originally Posted by littleogre

At 2nl with anything under TT i would just call in ep

Limping 88-JJ in Ep is bad - at a typical 2NL table you'll be playing a multiway limped pot oop which with a hand like 88-JJ is not profitable.

After all these aren't speculative hands like A3s or 98s which may sometimes benefit from limping at loose passive tables - it should be raised as just calling wastes most of the potential.

Well with all respect i do just fine limping small pairs in ep. I usually get multiple limpers behind me and win a big pot when i hit a set. When i limp small pairs in ep i am playing no set no bet poker. I don't really like raising with small pairs in ep. This is 2nl so you will usually get atleast 1 caller. Then you will be forced to play a flop the will most likely contain overs out of position in a raised pot.

I find that cbets are typically more effective against tighter players who limp pf from EP.

Basically I'm limping a lot more hands against these guffballs and taking down pots post-flop or folding postflop. Seems to be working, I've had a really good night.

plz plz dont do this

Originally Posted by eragotte

plz plz dont do this

Why? I do it because of this:

Originally Posted by littleogre

When i limp small pairs in ep i am playing no set no bet poker. I don't really like raising with small pairs in ep. This is 2nl so you will usually get atleast 1 caller. Then you will be forced to play a flop the will most likely contain overs out of position in a raised pot.

where the fuck is spoonitnow. i need a ranges.gif so bad.

@easypoker: most 2nl players are thinking on level 0 incorrectly (i.e. 'what do i have'). How can we exploit this?

Originally Posted by JKDS

where the fuck is spoonitnow. i need a ranges.gif so bad.

@easypoker: most 2nl players are thinking on level 0 incorrectly (i.e. 'what do i have'). How can we exploit this?

How can we exploit this? By being on level 1?

By thinking about what other people might have?

I dunno if your question was rhetorical...

ok so we're on level 1. How does that effect raising preflop? what worse hands call?

what flops are more likely to hit villain? how can we exploit the likelihood that he hits a flop?

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

I don't want to raise high at 2nl in case someone has a higher card and pairs it on the flop...but at the same time I want as few ppl as possible to see the flop...

This is a horribly misguided statement, medium pocket pairs with lots of players to the flop are some of the most profitable situations in microstakes full ring. That being said, raising is still usually best, never open limp.

Besides that, saying "I don't want to raise in case someone has a higher card and pairs it" is even more ridiculous. How can you say this without considering any math or ranges whatsoever? How often is your opponent going to have an overcard? How often is he going to hit his overcard? How often are you going to hit a set?

When you say this on a forum, it's understood as "I think it is not profitable for me when I raise with a medium pair and get called by players holding overcards." Even if this is not what you meant (perhaps were saying that you find it uncomfortable playing with a pocket pair with overcards on the board) these are the kinds of statements you should be thinking about and evaluating. You have not considered nearly enough factors to properly evaluate this statement.

parasurama pwned me. i was all like, i cant find a good way to say it so ill try to get the other guys to do it...and then para just swoops in and is like BAM MOTHA FUCKA.

I don't want to raise KK preflop since someone might have an Ace and an Ace might come on the flop.

By that logic I don't want to raise KK on a Q-high flop since someone might have an Ace and an Ace might come on the turn.

I should have elaborated.

I'm playing with just 10bb after an enormous tilt. I'm trying to play incredibly tight and it worked for me yesterday. I will take all comments on board though.

If I had a roll to play with, I would always raise pockets as normal.

jesus you're playing 10bb stacks at 2NL? This accomplishes nothing. You're not making money, you're not learning how to make money, you're probably not even going to learn a good shortstacking strategy.

I'm not a shortstacker but I think you should probably be trying to get AI preflop as often as you can with 88+

Originally Posted by Parasurama

I'm not a shortstacker but I think you should probably be trying to get AI preflop as often as you can with 88+

LOL, really?

I'm playing two tables with the maximum amount on each table ($5). I'm never beneath $5 at the end of a session (since I started playing again after my tilt).

So why would I risk it all preflop with 88-QQ when 2nl has loads of calling stations?

bb = big blinds not buy ins, just a heads up.

I know that.

My "LOL, really" comment was in reference to his choice of strategy.

then yes, its pretty obvious u should be shoving 88 and lol at ever limping anything ever with 10bbs

Serious breakdown of communication going on here

Originally Posted by JR9477

Serious breakdown of communication going on here

Totally.

JKDS and Parasurama: You're telling me to shove with 88+ everytime?

Please give reasoning when you make a bold statement like that.

Sometimes I limp with pockets JJ+

This is to coax people in. Then I bet high on the flop or turn.

Easy, it arose from your incorrect use of "bb" instead of "bi". I'm sure you knew what you meant, but from an outside point of view it can seem a little unclear. To clarify...

Do you mean that you have 10buy-ins for 2nl when buying in for the maximum $5?

Originally Posted by JR9477

Easy, it arose from your incorrect use of "bb" instead of "bi". I'm sure you knew what you meant, but from an outside point of view it can seem a little unclear. To clarify...

Do you mean that you have 10buy-ins for 2nl when buying in for the maximum $5?

1 buy in = 100bb

100bb @ 2nl = $2

Thus, I have about 8 buy-ins in my account right now.

Oh yeah, and following that advice to shove with 88+ just lost me about $4. I had JJ and lost to QQ.

Great stuff.

The advice about shoving 88+ was meant for a 10bb stack (which you shouldn't/can't have), not for a 100bb stack

hahaha I apologize. You said you were playing with 10bb, which led me to believe you were playing shortstacked (buying in for 20 cents at 2NL) but actually you're playing deepstacked (250bb). I would suggest buying in for only 100bb, especially since you only have 10 buy-ins, or perhaps 9 now. What's your sn? I'll ship you $4 if you want, pm if you don't want it public.

Nah it's ok, but thanks so much.

I just shoved with KK and won a massive pot (for 2nl) so im ok!

thanks though, really appreciate it.

OP is extremely results oriented. this is not how you win at poker.

Originally Posted by ChezJ

OP is extremely results oriented. this is not how you win at poker.

How does that help me?

Dont listen to anything i say, because i have no idea what you're talking about. Idk, maybe we're not on the same wavelength but it seems you and i just dont know what the other is saying. My mistake.

OP might be less results oriented if each win/loss didn't result in a huge gain/loss in his bankroll

Originally Posted by JKDS

Dont listen to anything i say, because i have no idea what you're talking about. Idk, maybe we're not on the same wavelength but it seems you and i just dont know what the other is saying. My mistake.

LOL, one of those occasions. No worries.

Originally Posted by JR9477

OP might be less results oriented if each win/loss didn't result in a huge gain/loss in his bankroll

Very true.

Read this...you might understand where I'm coming from:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...lt-t91652.html

Easy , Have you watched ant of the videos on this site?

Originally Posted by celtic123

Easy , Have you watched ant of the videos on this site?

Doing so now.

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Originally Posted by celtic123

Easy , Have you watched ant of the videos on this site?

Doing so now.

I'd recomend reading the beginer's digest to start things off.

Did I read right? OP is a 2nl shortstacker and limps JJ?

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Did I read right? OP is a 2nl shortstacker and limps JJ?

[X] OP is 2NL

[ ] OP limps JJ

[ ] OP is a shortstacker

[ ] Muzzard reads properly

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Did I read right? OP is a 2nl shortstacker and limps JJ?

[X] OP is 2NL

[ ] OP limps JJ

[ ] OP is a shortstacker

[ ] Muzzard reads properly

I'm not reading the cluster fuck that is this thread.

As a general FR rule I'd raise like 55+ UTG and fold 44>x. Add in a PP every position until your opeing 22 in 6max utg position.

I don't think it'd be that -EV at 2nl to open limp like 22-66 UTG or something, but you'd have to be weary to cut this out as you start moving up as it's pretty transparent unless you have a balanced limping UTG range.

Well don't comment then!

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

Well don't comment then!

read above

Ok, thanks very much.

Good response.