Opponents standard pre-flop raise is different size?

Does the size of an unknown opponents's pre-flop raise affect the way you play against them? I don't mean if it changes, but the standard raise?

I have 58 hands with this opponent who is 16/14 and the raise everytime is 8xBB.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Does the size of an unknown opponents's pre-flop raise affect the way you play against them? I don't mean if it changes, but the standard raise?

I have 58 hands with this opponent who is 16/14 and the raise everytime is 8xBB.

Fold a lot more.

I'd just play for sets/big pairs, and then only if both of you are deep... Your not going to get the odds with SCs...

Of course, your implied odds are much lower so your sc/pp type hands go down in value as calling hands. Also 8x bb standard raise is severely overbetting the pot and restealing becomes a more attractive option if he's raising light himself.

I fold more preflop and 3 bet more preflop.


EDIT: The 3 betting is not so much because of his raise size as because of his PFR.

If his preflop raise % is 14 he's not just raising AA/KK. You need to reraise this guy and put him in line.

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I'd just play for sets/big pairs, and then only if both of you are deep... Your not going to get the odds with SCs...

If his preflop raise % is 14 he's not just raising AA/KK. You need to reraise this guy and put him in line.

Combine these, resteal with hidden hands preflop.

That being said, usually I just stay out of these guys' way and punish the weak ones instead.

Originally Posted by HalvSame

That being said, usually I just stay out of these guys' way and punish the weak ones instead.

This was my thinking, but I knew there was a better answer. I folded AQo from the SB, otherwise I had garbage when he raised. I don't trust my post-flop skills yet.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Originally Posted by HalvSame

That being said, usually I just stay out of these guys' way and punish the weak ones instead.

This was my thinking, but I knew there was a better answer. I folded AQo from the SB, otherwise I had garbage when he raised. I don't trust my post-flop skills yet.

One big point is that you'll want to have position on the aggro players. Don't make it a habit to play back at people OOP.

Make sure you have position on him. If you don't, leave the table. Pay attention to implied odds, but also re-raise him with a wider range than usual... maybe 99+, AQo+, AJs+, KQs and the occasional suited connectors. If he calls, c-bet the flop. You'll scoop a lot of nice pots this way. After you've done it a couple of times, tighten your range a little b/c he'll be more likely to look you up. If he puts up any resistance post-flop you'll have to make a tough decision, but look at his WTSD% and pay attention to what he shows down to figure out if he's as loose post-flop as he is pre-flop.

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Originally Posted by HalvSame

That being said, usually I just stay out of these guys' way and punish the weak ones instead.

This was my thinking, but I knew there was a better answer. I folded AQo from the SB, otherwise I had garbage when he raised. I don't trust my post-flop skills yet.

One big point is that you'll want to have position on the aggro players. Don't make it a habit to play back at people OOP.

That's why I folded

stay outta the way - 16/14 sounds like he's just raising all big hands - I wouldn't get involved at all - AQ is exactly the type of hand that will get you in trouble against these rocks - i would just stay away unless you have a hand that can stack him (like 3 others in pot with a pp or something - then I might gamble a bit with him)

Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ

stay outta the way - 16/14 sounds like he's just raising all big hands - I wouldn't get involved at all - AQ is exactly the type of hand that will get you in trouble against these rocks - i would just stay away unless you have a hand that can stack him (like 3 others in pot with a pp or something - then I might gamble a bit with him)

Huh? Raising pre-flop 14% of the time is all big hands? Here's the top 14% according to PokerStove:

77+,A8s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+,QJo

AQo is around 6%.

My pfr over the last ~10k hands is just under 10% and I definitely do not raise just big hands. In position I'll raise anything if the table is right, which brings us to another point; you need to know if he is aware of position.

Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ

stay outta the way - 16/14 sounds like he's just raising all big hands - I wouldn't get involved at all - AQ is exactly the type of hand that will get you in trouble against these rocks - i would just stay away unless you have a hand that can stack him (like 3 others in pot with a pp or something - then I might gamble a bit with him)

AQ is ahead of probly about half of his range.

Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ

stay outta the way - 16/14 sounds like he's just raising all big hands - I wouldn't get involved at all - AQ is exactly the type of hand that will get you in trouble against these rocks - i would just stay away unless you have a hand that can stack him (like 3 others in pot with a pp or something - then I might gamble a bit with him)

insane?

he's only playing 16% of his hands...thats tight you LAGGS
just cause he raises 95% of his hands doesn't mean he's not raising good ones - Maybe he read the hellmuth top 10 hands and raises them all - Its certainly better than limping everything....

besides, if he's raising 8x BB preflop, why do you WANT to take AQ against him? If his range is A8s+ sure, but those stats seem awful tight to me - Also, if he's raising everyhand he's in preflop, is he letting them go or is he betting them big on c-bets? Do we really want to get involved in a bunch of pots with the guy when we're holding AQ?

Unless you hit the flop huge, you need to get paid off by him or you take a small pot - If he's c-betting flops with pot sized bets we are all of a sudden getting into big pots - (with marginal hands)

Who's to say that over 58 hands he hasn't gotten good ones? I think if that is over 558 hands, we have a better idea - But it's certainly easy to get great hands over less than 60 hands -

Just seems to me we don't need to get involved with the guy -

then again, i am a bit biased with AQ - I hate AQ - I play it pretty standard, but i don't win many big pots with it....Unless im betting TPTK into a donk opponent, im just getting involved with a marg. hand in a pot thats bigger than i want it to be....thats not my idea of good NL poker - i want to play big pot poker and i don't find that AQ lets me do that....

and nutsinho - why don't you offer something constructive? What the hell does a 1 word answer/question attain? Mr. Heart attack - come with something for me to respond....

Originally Posted by HalvSame

My pfr over the last ~10k hands is just under 10% and I definitely do not raise just big hands. In position I'll raise anything if the table is right, which brings us to another point; you need to know if he is aware of position.

do you have a standard raise of 8x BB with A8suited though? you are talking over 10k hands too - we only have 58 hands on him....

Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ

just cause he raises 95% of his hands doesn't mean he's not raising good ones -

Pokertracker does not rate pfr based on the vp$ip number. If out of 10 hands you see 3 flops and raise once, your vp$ip is 30 and your pfr is 10, not 33.

Originally Posted by AHiltz

Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ

just cause he raises 95% of his hands doesn't mean he's not raising good ones -

Pokertracker does not rate pfr based on the vp$ip number. If out of 10 hands you see 3 flops and raise once, your vp$ip is 30 and your pfr is 10, not 33.

I think limpin was just making up a number

Out of 100 hands he raises 14 and calls with 2 more.

14/16 = 87.5%

too many people only add a bb for each limper when they have a big pp. Too many also raise to 5bbs instead of their normal 4 with TT/JJ/QQ UTG and run scared when you reraise preflop and follow up on the flop.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

too many people only add a bb for each limper when they have a big pp. Too many also raise to 5bbs instead of their normal 4 with TT/JJ/QQ UTG and run scared when you reraise preflop and follow up on the flop.

isn't that just good TAG poker though? I used to over-raise preflop with big hands to only win blinds - I find its better to raise enough thta you define your hand, but you still want 1 or 2 callers - if i'm early i'll raise it 4-5x, and if there are limpers i'll add a few big blinds, but when i've got Q's or J's (both of which are raise/reraise the stupid min-raiser hands for me) then im betting when i've got the overpair and i'm careful when the A or K hits....I've lost plenty of pots thinking i'm good with QQ to a set or something weird - I used to play them scared and overbet and try to just get the pot to me as quickly as possible - Now i'm trying to max them out more by getting a caller or 2 and a good flop....

lately i've been just calling some decent preflop raises even when I think it's a position raise with my QQ or JJ hands (despite 6 people being in- lol) just in order to win a huge pot if i hit a set...but im just experimenting with that against bad players....

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

too many people only add a bb for each limper when they have a big pp.

you're saying they don't add a bb when they don't have a pp?

Too many also raise to 5bbs instead of their normal 4 with TT/JJ/QQ UTG and run scared when you reraise preflop and follow up on the flop.

OK, that's not what I'm talking about though. If bets vary I generally get why. This was 8x regardless of a limper or two or zero, regardless of position.

As people raise bigger, it becomes less correct to call and more correct to re-raise or fold.

If this guy was at my table, I'd get a feel for what range he's raising and start re-popping it to 20x when I feel I have the best of it between hole cards and position. I also would keep tabs on how he plays the flop in heads-up flops.

If the cards are cold, I might just re-pop him once with crap to build some mistrust.