need help...newbie to no limit

Hi guys,
I play regularly $4-$8 limit live everyday. However, i wanted to learn no-limit too. So went and bought the book "mastering no limit hold-em" but russell fox and read it.

Logged onto party and started playing $25 no limit. I have no problem with patience. What i am having problem is extracting money on good hands. The only hands where i won some money (barely 5$ when i went all in against a short stack with KK, raised 5$ preflop where blinds are 10c-25c with QQ and went all in on the flop).

once i flopped a gutshot from my blinds, bet min on the flop and got called by 3 people. made my straight on the turn and checked so i could check raise all in. on the river when i bet big, everyone folded.


long story short, people are folding left and right whenever you bet something major. how do you get people to pay you off on your good hands.....am i not getting the game or its just a small sample of 1 night.

Thanks a lot for your help and advice

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

So went and bought the book "mastering no limit hold-em" but russell fox and read it.

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

once i flopped a gutshot from my blinds, bet min on the flop and got called by 3 people. made my straight on the turn and checked so i could check raise all in. on the river when i bet big, everyone folded.

I fear for what Ed's book is going to do for these games, if Fox's book didn't teach you better than this....

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

long story short, people are folding left and right whenever you bet something major. how do you get people to pay you off on your good hands.....

Build pots, sucker them in, steal, etc.

Play and learn. Find out the psychology behind action, and why it is given. In short, there is no answer for you right now. You're not in sync with the game until you play a few thousand hands.

thanks for reply Fnord. I realise my play was miserable on that gutshot hand. However, i have seen more people taking a stab at the pot in my $4-$8 limit and $9-$18 limit live game than this 25$ no limit game.

I am sure i would need some major adjustments but the book is a good start. I hear Ed Miller is coming out with a no limit book in May. Now if its anywhere close as good to his limit book, it would be a boon for newbies like me...

Position is a big defference in NL. The better position you are in, the better your hand becomes.

Build pots with you have a big hand (trips or better). If you have trips, bet on the flop and turn.

If you think you are ahead in a hand, bet at the pot to avoid someone hitting their straight or flush.

Middle pair is garbage with more than a couple people in the hand. Play small pairs for sets. If you don't hit a set on the flop, put yourself into a check/fold mode.

If you have raised pre-flop and are in the flop with no more than a couple people - continuation bet at it, no matter what you have. Bet the pot, if someone calls and you still have only ace high, you are probably loosing unless someone is drawing.

Don't bluff until you have a few thousand hands behind you.

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Position is a big defference in NL. The better position you are in, the better your hand becomes.

*Nod*

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Build pots with you have a big hand (trips or better). If you have trips, bet on the flop and turn.

Don't forget the river....or are you already all-in?

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

If you think you are ahead in a hand, bet at the pot to avoid someone hitting their straight or flush.

*chuckle*

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Middle pair is garbage with more than a couple people in the hand. Play small pairs for sets. If you don't hit a set on the flop, put yourself into a check/fold mode.

*cackle*

Originally Posted by BankItPayette

Don't bluff until you have a few thousand hands behind you.

Set farm NL25, then learn how to make more money.

So much to say, so little diction.

Maybe you are raising to hard with your premium holdings. You mentioned raising 5$ pre with QQ and I do hope you didn't make that raise FI. If you are not having any action it could just be bad luck over the run of one single day. Another thing (though I wont judge you for starting out safe); I would recommend you to jump t0 50$ NL right away. The play here is not really much better and playing 4-8$ Limit you should be more than enough bankrolled to play at these stakes.

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

Hi guys,
I play regularly $4-$8 limit live everyday. However, i wanted to learn no-limit too. So went and bought the book "mastering no limit hold-em" but russell fox and read it.

as others in the thread have already pointed out, books are not a substitute for playing. get a few thousand hands behind you just to get a feel for the game. you should have the bankroll to afford this.

my own two pieces of advice boil down to:

#1. know exactly what you're playing each hand for--e.g. @ good tables, against solid players, marginal hands like kq/aj have to be played for twopair or straights. ak/aq are used to isolate weaker aces & milk value out of their dominated tp. aa/kk are ideally used to force somebody extremely marginal calls preflop for a large amount of money (usually when you're a 70/30 favorite or better; nothing better than having a douchebag call your move w/ kqs & say "i thought it was a flip" after your aces or kings hold up) or trapping ak/aq.

this is where it starts--w/ time, you can add more & more hands, w/ various uses, to your repertoire. i, for one, love seeing j9s or t8s in early position--gaped suited connectors are imo very valuable b/c #1. they're very easy to get away from unless the flop really hits you in the face like a ninja & #2. weak players pay like slot machines w/ tp tk or two-pair on a board where straights aren't obvious. find out what works for your style of play, fine-tune your approach (i've decided that i almost always go over the top w/ open-endeds on an unpaired rainbow board, e.g.) & then apply it consistently.

#2. know your opponents. personally, the thing that has made the largest amount of difference to my (relative; i'm sure there are others browsing this forum that have made much more cash) online success was consistently taking notes on the style of play, betting patterns & overall behaviors of opponents. if you see me online w/ the clock almost running out preflop before i make my decision, it's usually b/c im consulting the history for the last hand & jotting down pertinent info. i think i've written a minimum of 10 novels about the habits of absolute poker, p-stars & pp players. as w/ any type of poker, noting which players play which cards & how gives you an incredible advantage.

Yea i have something more to add to the "set farm NL until you get a feel for it" comment. I think no limit has way more reverse implied odds at work than limit and you have to be way more careful to play better startintg hands as a result. At the same time, against aware opponents you are going to run into problems where people expect you to only play big cards and they will fold when you show any sign of strength (after they have got to know your style) so i say you should go into it differently. You sound like a man with a bankroll if you are coming from $4-$8 limit so if you find yourself in a tight game, why not experiment? Start stealing pots with KTo but dont expect to go to showdowns with just a pair of Kings. Against tight players you need to be tight with your showdown hands but much looser + aggressive if you think you can steal. This is a style I havnt managed to get working yet (partly because I dont have the experience and partly because I play against calling stations) but it sounds like you have enough to pay a little NL learning tax, so if you really feel the players are too tight to pay off big hands, then spend a little learning how to LAG. If on the other hand, you are playing at loose tables and have just managed to make hands when everyone else has 72o then you are unlucky and patience will pay off.

Try reading Phil Gordon's Little Green Book...Excellent book to begin your NL career.