Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
2 debatable things about the comment, imo.

1) deception is still critical at lower stakes. there are those who do not think, true, but there are those that DO think, as well. who knows which is which? ASSUMING that most players do not think, at any level, imo, is -EV.
Nah, in 2 orbits it becomes clear who the thinkers are (if there are any at all) that you have to play some poker with, the rest is just ABC. That's enough to kill these stakes at 10-20 ptBB/100.

2) check/call your flushes and "connected" str8s all you want to, and at any level, you will NOT get paid when your hand comes in, against the typical online player. check the flush card on the turn and bet the river, and you still get a fold more than 75% of the time, no matter how you play your draw.
Doesn't really matter. The play just has to be +EV for you. You don't need to play huge pots with every draw you flop. Also in NL your opponents can also easily kill your drawing odds whereas in LHE this is nigh impossible (I think). For example villain is on 2p, you bet he raises you big. Pretty quickly you can become pot committed to felt your 30% eqity draw, whereas if you check/call the pot stays under control.

the move to bet your draw, whether it be small or large, is to build the pot to "price in your draw." much like in limit.
I find that a weird line of thinking. The reason to bet a draw is that x% of the time you win the pot right there (fold equity), and if they call, you have y% to still win the hand because of your draw. If you calculate this in practice, you'll see that the height of the +EV hinges on the height of your FE.

and as for the "leaking money" while betting draws...did you try it longer than a week?

not trying to be insulting...i just see myself "try" something for 2500 hands, then say, "that doesnt work." then, hop in the forums and start telling people their sample size is too small.
I dunno, if you need to test everything for a decent sample size you'll be a fish forever I think. Some things you can just logically deduce to be bad. Let's say you KNOW for a fact that you'll be called on the flop by top or middle pair any kicker, regardless. Or even bottom pair, or a wiffed AK who can't fold but still has you beat. If you know this, why would you bet anything other than hands that beat this range? Bet your TPHK, 2p+.. betting a draw that has 30% equity when you're getting called down this light should be fairly obviously -EV, right?..

Higher stakes, you don't have this. So you tune your game so that your bets/raises are monsters x% of the time, draws y% and bluffs z%.. in such a way that it is never profitable for your opponent to call you down. That is how the high stakes players on FTR/2+2 explain it.

Well this is my reasoning atleast, not the gospel obv.