Letting go of Aces

Sorry, No HH. This hand has been bugging me.

Villain is like a mirror image of myself. Plays about 17/12/1.8
Capable of floating, understands when to bloat the pot.
Haven't seen any large pots with less than 2 pair in his hand.

Hero is CO with AdAh and 8.25 behind at 5nl. --Effective stack.

One limper, hero raises to .25
SB Calls, Limper folds HU to the flop.

Flop: .60 cents
Js Tc 9s

Hero bets 50 cents.
villain raises to 1.25
Hero folds.

the biggest reason I didn't call, was that I was unwilling to play a huge pot against my opponent, especially when I thought his range just got hammered by that flop.

I figure he'd have flatted TT-22. I know when I was playing 19/13 that suited connectors JQ-45 were snapcalls and one gappers also got some action. (I've toned it down now, I try not to call those unless I know my opponenit is silly passive post flop)

too passive?

fr or 6max? this is nit picky but folding wouldn't be passive it would be tight .

do we have call pfr% or at least 3bet pf%? i don't feel like 17/12 gives us a GREAT idea of his range other than "it's not that big." if he only cold calls like 5% preflop then we know that he has middle pp's and sc's in which case this is an easy fold

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I figure he'd have flatted TT-22.

His flatting range is at least twice this wide.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

too passive?

Yes.

I'd call one street at least. His range is wide, he could be raising ANY combination of pair + gutshot, any flush draw, even AK for two overcards + gutshot.

Originally Posted by Robb

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I figure he'd have flatted TT-22.

His flatting range is at least twice this wide.

I also added suited connectors in there too

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

too passive?

Yes.

Ugh, I hated the fold. I felt like an IP raise would have been something I would be willing to see one more street to hope he checked behind. BUT an OOP raise in a pot bloat situation, would he EVER check it to me after stealing the initiative? The checkbombflop/checkbombturn line is silly.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Originally Posted by Robb

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I figure he'd have flatted TT-22.

His flatting range is at least twice this wide.

I also added suited connectors in there too

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

too passive?

Yes.

Ugh, I hated the fold. I felt like an IP raise would have been something I would be willing to see one more street to hope he checked behind. BUT an OOP raise in a pot bloat situation, would he EVER check it to me after stealing the initiative? The checkbombflop/checkbombturn line is silly.

wait, what did you just say?

I said that if my opponent were OOP, he's bloating the pot with the understanding that I'm going to be very reluctant to check any nonspade,nonface flops back if he checks to me. Here if I did bet, he could check/bomb me again for my stack and put me to a really tough decision no matter what came.)

But if my opponent were in position I would be much more likely to call, because he may be raising with some larger draws in order to get to the river for free. (Here if I checked, I lose no more money if he slaps me, and I can valuebet any nonspade nonface non 8 river.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I said that if my opponent were OOP, he's bloating the pot with the understanding that I'm going to be very reluctant to check any nonspade,nonface flops back if he checks to me. Here if I did bet, he could check/bomb me again for my stack and put me to a really tough decision no matter what came.)

But if my opponent were in position I would be much more likely to call, because he may be raising with some larger draws in order to get to the river for free. (Here if I checked, I lose no more money if he slaps me, and I can valuebet any nonspade nonface non 8 river.

The more I think about these last 2 paragraphs the more I Realize I probably sound like I'm mentally retarded, but I swear it made complete logical sense to me at the table.

Meh, I guess he'd flat with QJs here? If he's not going to flat much to a bet so we can either check behind or b/3b or b/call and shove over missed turns if we think he's doing this a lot with draws.

I dont mind this fold. If its a mistake its a small one, and sometimes a small mistake is better than making a bigger one on a later street. Even if we're ahead here, think about how many hands can hit on the turn that we probably need to fold to further aggression.

I'm not saying folding is bad now but I'm just asking if b/f should really be an option here. Like if we can put b/f in our range, that should mean villain flats a lot here (a ton more than raising), right?

I didnt read responses, my reply was just based on the OP. Definately helps if you have a read about what he raises and what he calls with here. Readless I probably b/f though. You should get on msn so we can discuss concepts .

A lot of it depends on whether we actually want to fold if raised. If we dont want to fold, then betting is bad, if we're happy enough folding to a raise then betting is fine.

Against the range you specified on that draw heavy board-we are about 55/45- 50/50-45/55 equity.I'm leaning towards a shove here for a flip,but calling would make our hands super-vulnerable,and we are most likely folding against villain esp OOP.
b/f on the turn-scare card or not with given reads

I'm calling here and re-eval the turn. Could be drawing or TPTK. I want to see what peels off