Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Quote Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
I'm sorry, but to all the haters: you're wrong.
Jeff, I think your being a little harsh. I just mentioned that he may want to play with a little more in his stack. I am interested in whether this is a viable option and would be willing to discuss the merits of hand and plays at such a low buy in (20BB). Do you feel that sets are a worthy hand to attempt playing for i.e. calling a 4 BB raise with 20BB's holding 22, 33 or 44. It is obviously going to be a push/fold style game and playing 20BB's deep means no FE. So you are only pushing with TP type hands.
Your original post said that he could not make money this way and that 40BB stacks were a minimum. That statement is wrong. There's nothing harsh about it - it's merely the simple truth. Money can be made if you alter your game correctly. As to the question at hand, no, it would not be profitable to call a 4BB raise with a low pocket pair for set value. It would be profitable to raise them for set + FE value in pots that are folded to you.

And yes, you would be playing a mostly push/fold style. That's why we're playing only hands that hold up well at showdown. You have FE against some players this way, but the fact that you're playing good cards and most players end up calling you down light tends to increase the profit potential. Once I had that $25 up to $400 or so, I started my $20 sessions of $100NL by pushing one crappy hand specifically to show so that my nittiness would be paid off afterwards (but there's no reason to do this at the $10NL level!).

Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Another thing for OP to consider, is once you get 10 or 12 BB's do you stay at the table or move on? When do you decide to keep your profits and rebuy at another table. Starting with 20BB and doubling up would require a change in gears, would it not? And what about top ups? Do you recommend toping up immediately after the blinds,and when calling raises? Playing as short as 20BB's would require you to top up almost every orbit at leastr once or twice. this strategy will require a lot of concentration and patience. it will be tough mentally and working 300 or 400 hands to double a couple times, only to get stacked twice can be very tiring. Lets give the OP all the info he needs if he's seriously going to try this.
These are very good points. My strategy was not to leave when I had doubled up. Rather I kept playing my TAG game. There's not too much of an adjustment needed really. You're just playing good cards aggressively.

When I was doing it, I didn't top off. It never occurred to me at the time. Now I can't speak for sure as to whether it would be more valueable to do so or not...the drain on your BR would be pretty noticeable, but the difference in profit potential seems vast too.

I think it's actually a bit easier to play short than it is to play deep. You have fewer decisions playing short. You never have to evaluate draws or pot odds. You just play preflop and on the flop trying to get in with the best of it.