Quote Originally Posted by surviva316
what do we suggest SB raise to? like 6? it's not like he has to worry about balance here because nobody (not even nutsinho?) is ever cold 4b bluffing here so he doesn't have to worry about balance. he just has to hope that someone makes a mistake. whereas raising to 6 gives him like only very very slightly less than perfect pot odds to set mine (it's <10:1, but considering SPR, hand strength and position, 10:1 seems PLENTY to me)
$6-$6.50 is good I guess. At least make him consider making the (huge) mistake of calling our 4bet. Like I've seen guys call in spots like this with AK to smaller 4bets because of the 'great price' - 4betting too large just allows villain to play vs our range perfectly/correctly. Yeah we may never bluff here, but if we're going to turn our hand face up lets at least give him a chance to talk himself into calling. $8 is just asking for folds, and its an expensive option if SB were ever to bluff.

If we make it 6.25 it's 3.75 for MP1 to call, so he's getting like 6:1 'stack odds' thus not even close to correct odds to set mine (this is ignoring the dead money in the pot making his odds slightly better). The only pairs (presumably) in his range are QQ/KK. If we size down our 4bet we may get him to make a 'fuck it call' with AK - and such a huge mistake like that will make us alot of money. Even calling with QQ is bad, because yeah he COULD think he can set mine, but is he really just going to be able to fold QQ as an overpair postflop in a huge pot if hes bad enough to call pre with it? Especially if the board comes out 7xx and you bet 1/3-1/4 pot. SB should give him a chance to make a mistake preflop, which will oftentimes lead to mistakes postflop. Postflop bet sizing should be creative to manipulate his range in our favour as much as possible since it's going to be very narrow and we want to keep it as wide as we can to maxmize value - same goes for preflop. It is clear the SB put no effort into sizing his raise strategically preflop in order to maximize his EV because he's a terrible fucking nit who's a 25nl FPP amateur who is incapable of thinking beyond what he holds and how big he should bet to avoid being called so he can't get sucked out on.