general tactic on maniac when oop

i would like to gather some opinions.

i recently posted a scenario in the SNG forum, and want to ask an even more general question.

when you have maniacs to your left, how do you play them?

do you get aggro ahead of them, trying to keep them out of a pot with you? or do you sit like a rock and trap them? if you mix it up, what do you look for to aggro up? and trap?

please answer from both points of view...tourneys and rings, as most of us dabble with both, imo.

In a SNG I lay in wait. If he can be relied upon to raise virtually any unraised pot in position, I'm limping a PF monster once in a while if it's checked to me. When he raises I significantly RR him. If blinds are big I may push. I'm looking to call with small PP and play for set value. I'm not playing SC unless they happen to be big ones (AKs, AQs). No trapping really. Just making sure I test him and have something good if I need to showdown. To tell the truth, maniacs don't bother me in a tourney setting. They don't tend to last long. They take chips with one hand and give them back with the other.

I have trouble dealing with your scenario in Ring. He can always rebuy so the psychological (oh god, I'm out!) angle of SNG is gone. I'll be interested in what is said about ring.

no doubt they are tougher in ring games, but you play them about the same, imo.

tourneys are a bit rough for me when they are on my left, as i get into pissing matches with them fighting for table control. but instead of balls out betting with them, i usually sneak attack them once or twice.

obviously, it didnt work the last time...hence the post.

I just try and wait for a monster hand and then just check/call and wait for him to bet. Its unlikely he well be around for awhile anyway so they don't bother me that much

my problem/concern is that in tourneys, they can build monster stacks very quickly..right from the get-go.

and in ring, if you play 6 max at a table where the maniac keeps chasing people off (therefore, playing even more SH most of the time), you can get blinded to death...if you only wait for monsters. not to mention the fact that a decent LAG knows that he is being "waited for," and never pays your monsters off.

any other ideas on how to "set them up?" or trap them? what are your ranges for raising (to bump them out)? or what are your minimums for hands you will play hard when the flop hits you?...meaning, just how hard do you need to hit the flop? bottom pair? TPTK? better?

all the banter is fine, i just wanted some deeper thought about how to tackle these guys when you get screwed and placed on their right. in ring games, this is easier to handle with better "seat/table selection," but in tourneys, you have to keep fighting no matter where your seat is.

Originally Posted by Chopper

my problem/concern is that in tourneys, they can build monster stacks very quickly..right from the get-go.

and in ring, if you play 6 max at a table where the maniac keeps chasing people off (therefore, playing even more SH most of the time), you can get blinded to death...if you only wait for monsters. not to mention the fact that a decent LAG knows that he is being "waited for," and never pays your monsters off.

any other ideas on how to "set them up?" or trap them? what are your ranges for raising (to bump them out)? or what are your minimums for hands you will play hard when the flop hits you?...meaning, just how hard do you need to hit the flop? bottom pair? TPTK? better?

all the banter is fine, i just wanted some deeper thought about how to tackle these guys when you get screwed and placed on their right. in ring games, this is easier to handle with better "seat/table selection," but in tourneys, you have to keep fighting no matter where your seat is.

I feel ya, as I hate playing oop against a good LAG in cash game (obv. as u point out seat selection is good, still, sometimes its inevitable). From my experience, and I'm definitely not the best at playing against good LAGs, so input from others would be good, you need to figure out how far the LAG is willing to go with his hands. If a LAG is a maniac on the flop, but will hardly ever pay you off if u continue with the hand afterwards when u have a monster (in other words, if he shies away from resistance pretty quickly), then it is a good idea to take advantage of this by perhaps floating oop, and check-raising the flop or turn. If you check-call the flop I find, then check-raise the turn, if it is against a good LAG who can fold he will need a big hand here. Picking up 2 free bets in a spot like this picks up a good deal of chips, and thus if used as an occasional weapon is very effective against a good lag (If you use this too much, however, you will get looked up lighter and lighter, so be aware of your own image).

However, if you are against a lag who fires bullets until his gun breaks down, then you need to simply be patient and try to trap them the best way possible. Sometimes this could be leading out on the flop, letting them come over the top, then checking the turn to them. Other times this may be check-calling them all the way down.

I guess ultimately it comes down to what poker is all about, finding how your opp.'s play is exploitable and attacking it. However, in cash games its def. better if you can avoid the scenario all together as much as possible.

aggr0000000000000000000

check raising usually calms them down a bit

Pull off some spew inducers:

- open preflop, check/raise flop
- c-bet, c/r turn aka "stack-a-donk"
- bet hard pf, flop and turn streets, then check a lot of busted rivers with intention of calling his PSB

I love maniacs. They may build a big stack at some point but they always give it back. I am talking about the BAD LAG maniacs--those that think aggression and aggression only wins a hand. These are the players I look for 1st whenever I get to a table because they offer me a quick double up. Nits and "standard" players don't stack off easy enough so you should try to stack the maniacs before somebody else does.

I play ring only so here is what I do...

- Play passive when they are in the hand
- Play aggressive when they are not in the hand
- Don't raise them when you have a monster until the river
- Be willing to let them push you off some small/medium pots to make them think you are easy to manipulate
- Tighten up pf raising hands if they call your pf raises a lot.
- Take weak lines with TPTK+ , i.e. cbet flop, check turn. Cbet flop, weak bet (less than 1/2 pot) turn, weak bet river. Be ready to call or re-raise his raise!
- Limp/play more hands to try and hit something to stack them with. With maniacs, you generally have implied odds with just about anything decent, esp if they raised pf.

IMO, weak-betting your good hands on the turn/river is the best way to get them to stack off because they almost always raise you thinking you are weak/scared.

i do love to feign weakness. its a great bluff-inducer.

btw, the thing that inspired/pissed me off was a tourney where someone two to my left kept pushing over me.

luckily, he showed a tourney history in a forum, and i got to see his hands....he was the hot guy. everything he did was solid. but, given my read in a fast-increasing tourney...i didnt have time to make reliable reads..i had to go with what i saw, and i felt i had a maniac in there when he was just on a heater...oh well. i feel a bit better, knowing i was up against solid hands most times.