Fun test for beginners

What did player 7 do wrong in the following linked hand?

http://www.flopturnriver.com/hand_011404-bad_call.html

Not a beginner, but I don't see anything wrong. PF Raise-good. Bet flop-good. All-in to the reraise-didn't have to push there, but got the most value for his hand anyway. Wasn't going to make anymore than that.

Should have re-raised for value. But considering stacks sizes...any raise commits Hero to the pot and he'll have to call that third heart if it falls. So just put it all in now and let opp call on a draw or fold me the decent sized pot.

Also, the flop bet was wrong. He bet $2 into a $5.25 pot. He needs to bet more to really discourage draws and give them really bad odds

Originally Posted by sykotik489

Not a beginner, but I don't see anything wrong. PF Raise-good. Bet flop-good. All-in to the reraise-didn't have to push there, but got the most value for his hand anyway. Wasn't going to make anymore than that.

You are setting yourself up by saying you are not a beginner. As such a stead fast player you should be able to see what you have clearly missed my little grasshopper.
I give you for your effort.

Originally Posted by edudlive

Should have re-raised for value. But considering stacks sizes...any raise commits Hero to the pot and he'll have to call that third heart if it falls. So just put it all in now and let opp call on a draw or fold me the decent sized pot.

Also, the flop bet was wrong. He bet $2 into a $5.25 pot. He needs to bet more to really discourage draws and give them really bad odds

You see much, but miss much more. I give you a

I'd say he missed an opportunity to trap on the flop...why lead out? Opp could just as easily have folded after not catching either one of his overcards. Opp called the pre-flop raise so he's got some level of commitment to the hand, so let him lead out and then come over the top. Check/raise.

Originally Posted by Warpe

I'd say he missed an opportunity to trap on the flop...why lead out? Opp could just as easily have folded after not catching either one of his overcards. Opp called the pre-flop raise so he's got some level of commitment to the hand, so let him lead out and then come over the top. Check/raise.

You may have made a straight, but u straight out missed this one.

"but got the most value for his hand anyway" - nope

"considering stacks sizes" - consider them further my little chickadees.

Oh, and by the way - I'm totally just having fun with this post - it just dawned on me that I might be coming off as very Hellmuthian here and that wasn't my intent.

I'll publish my answer soon and then let you all rip on me.

What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.

Originally Posted by JL

What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.

Bingo, he made the most off this hand with his stack size but he could have made more if he had more stack.

Although arguments can be made about how player 7 played his hand after the flop, that really isn't what I was looking for to give out on this one.

Where player 7 screwed up was by buying in for less than the maximum allowed.

Right as I was making the above post - JL with his very first post comes up big.

:Ac: :As: for JL

Originally Posted by EricE

Originally Posted by JL

What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.

Bingo, he made the most off this hand with his stack size but he could have made more if he had more stack.

For all I remember, thos HH's are from old party poker times, when max buyin was only 50BB...

Nothing wrong with that hand, but I'd pot it on flop...

First Post here...but why is it a mistake to not buy-in at the max?

I prefer to buy-in with half the max and play tight. Reduces the implied odds someone gets on me and reduces the hard decisions if I half-way catch a flop against an aggressive Opp. There's only so much you can push a short stack around...

It does minimize my winnings initially, but it helps me start the session focused and when I do double or triple up my raises tend to be taken more seriously which opens the door for semi-bluffs. But I'm a newb so I could be wrong.

Preflop is fine, we can argue a 5bbs raise with one limper but thats splitting hairs. Flop is awful. $2 into a $5-6 pot is drawing odds for the flush, so $4 or $5 is better here.
Mini raise suggests three things. Draw/set two pair. So id reraise big rather than push as both protection and a sign that im playing for stacks and it all goes in on the turn so long as no scare cards hit.
Top two on that board is played hard and fast. If someone flopped a set i could go broke as its a draw heavy board.
Other notes. Not buying in for the max. No arguements, buy in for the max. Plus id add posting the bb. He has ugly position so why pay for 4 hands or so in ugly position than wait for the BB?

I think you might have made only slightly more if you had bought in for the max. Unless he's just a complete doofus he's not calling a $50 push with a gutshot straight draw and K hi...though I never buyin shortstacked either so I don't disagree that it's a mistake here either.

Originally Posted by DaHorror

I think you might have made only slightly more if you had bought in for the max. Unless he's just a complete doofus he's not calling a $50 push with a gutshot straight draw and K hi...though I never buyin shortstacked either so I don't disagree that it's a mistake here either.

If you started the hand with $50 you wouldn't have pushed the flop, unless it came to that from a re-raise pissing match. You would have potted his reraise and moved on to the turn where the money would most likely have gone in.

Originally Posted by Thee One

First Post here...but why is it a mistake to not buy-in at the max?

I prefer to buy-in with half the max and play tight. Reduces the implied odds someone gets on me and reduces the hard decisions if I half-way catch a flop against an aggressive Opp. There's only so much you can push a short stack around...

It does minimize my winnings initially, but it helps me start the session focused and when I do double or triple up my raises tend to be taken more seriously which opens the door for semi-bluffs. But I'm a newb so I could be wrong.

There are legitemate points for buying in short but the biggest problem I see is illustrated by part of your post. ...it reduces the difficult decisions you have to make. That is hurting your development. Buy in full and learn fully. <shrug>

AND, hero might not have had time to buy back in if the last hand is what brought him down to that amount. In that case the biggest fault would be the weak flop raise that gave opp the good odds.

I was actually expecting more arguments for buying in with less than the max...

When I was starting, I bought in for just over the minimum pretty frequently because I was (and often still am) an overly aggressive player who found it extremely difficult to lay down hands once I was involved in them.

I reckon the other mistake he made was not being patient enough to wait till he was the BB before posting.