Fed siezing poker $$$ - What's going on?

Have y'all heard about this? I'm wondering what some of you who've been playing online for years think will end up happening?

WASHINGTON (AP) - An advocacy group for online poker said Tuesday that the federal government has frozen more than $30 million in the accounts of payment processors that handle the winnings of thousands of online poker players.

The Justice Department long has maintained that Internet gambling is illegal, a view that the poker group challenges.

The Poker Players Alliance told The Associated Press that the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York instructed three banks - Citibank, Goldwater Bank and Alliance Bank of Arizona - to freeze the accounts.

Documents obtained by the AP show that a magistrate judge in the district issued a seizure warrant last week for an account at a Wells Fargo bank in San Francisco, and that a federal prosecutor told Alliance Bank to freeze accounts.

Group says government has frozen $30M in online poker players' winnings

An interesting fact about these four banks is that they have received over $50 billion in combined government bailout funds.

10/28/08 Wells Fargo Bank of San Francisco recieved $25,000,000,000

10/28/08 Citigroup Inc. parent of Citibank received $25,000,000,000

11/21/08 Western Alliance Bancorp parent of Alliance Bank of Arizona received $140,000,000

1/30/09 Goldwater bank of Scottsdale Arizona received $2,568,000

That is a grand total of $50,142,568,000. This money was used to buy senior preferred shares (ownership) in these companies and was part of the TARP Capital Purchase Program.

Makes me glad I live in the UK.

Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat

Makes me glad I live in the UK.

Originally Posted by Kijjo

This money was used to buy senior preferred shares (ownership) in these companies and was part of the TARP Capital Purchase Program.

IT'S A TARP!

Originally Posted by sil693

Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat

Makes me glad I live in the UK.

Don't have this problem in Belgium...

I just requested a check about a week ago. Should? be interesting. I should be ok with BB&T right?

I requested a check 2 days ago. I bank with Regions (kept saying AmSouth, but forgot they got bought out), so I'll be trying to cash it in the near future. All of the emails people have received back from PS have said that the checks coming through new processors should be fine.

The reality is that if you live in the US and are relying on internet poker for money that you seriously need, you should be very careful and cautious about both the amount and the method of your withdrawals from your internet poker accounts.

I know that there's a lot of claims about how this is not illegal, and I am not saying that if a court case comes down the courts will necessarily side with the Feds, but the fact remains that as long as the Feds CLAIM it is illegal, have a plausible argument on their side (which they do with the enactment of UIGEA as well as the earlier Wire Fraud Act), and are interested in cracking down, they can make life very difficult for US internet players.

So as I said, if the money in your internet poker account is money you need, you should be very careful.

Under Bush I wouldn't've thought much of it - it would blow over. But this administration is making sweeping changes and a huge impact in so many different areas, and no one seems ready to stand up for the constitution or laws, even the supreme court. Not sure the PPA's gonna be able to do anything.
Best way it works out is if somehow a few major sites (Stars, FT) can work out some kind of agreement with the gov't. Say bail out our country maybe?

I just took out 3K from Stars at the end of May, got the check, deposited in my bank and it cleared....today I got an email from support saying that the same cashout request couldnt be processed and the $$ has been returned to my account...so I'm pretty sure I just beat Pokerstars HU4ROLLZ

lol nice.

Traditionally, Democrats have favored legalizing poker, but this administration hasn't gone on record one way or the other. Seems to me they're missing a great new tax revenue stream to help finance our way out of this spending debacle over last 3 years.

I was encouraged by the state court wins for pokerz in KY, SC and NY. But the feds can roll in and screw it up any way they want to. The DOJ doesn't act with the President's OK, no matter what's said in the press releases, so Obama has to decide what he plans to do with this stuff.

I'm not sure which forum this should belong in but I'm sure it's not this one.

welcome back, spoon. u were missed.

Originally Posted by OP

I just took out 3K from Stars at the end of May, got the check, deposited in my bank and it cleared....today I got an email from support saying that the same cashout request couldnt be processed and the $$ has been returned to my account...so I'm pretty sure I just beat Pokerstars HU4ROLLZ

in b4 check bounces?

Yes the feds are more worried about hiking taxes on gas and cigs, if they just brought Internet poker on board, they would make so much money. I don't understand it, they have more laws on the books for how to deal with the railroads and horses, they need to realize we live in a different century!!!

I've really pondered about why they won't legalize and regulate it to make the extra tax revenue. I'm really getting concerned for our country because like so many other things, there's only a couple reasons I can think of why they would do this, and personally I think all these reasons suck:
1. The politicians think they know what's best for people, so they will decide that you can't handle things like online poker and take it away from you like a parent would a child.
2. They want as much control over any area of american life as they can get and realize that it would be very very difficult to ever really control a system like regulating online gambling, so they rather just nix it.
3. They don't WANT the extra tax revenue because they're not trying to fix our countrie's budget problem, by making it worse and bringing everyone to their knees economically, they can amass more control (think this is crazy? THEY OWN BANKS and CAR COMPANIES!). They can seek greater tax revenue options once they've reconfigured the struture of our country.
4. They are simply oblivious and ignorant.

As I said, none of these possibilities offer much hope for where this is going to end up.
Best I would guess is that they'll try to stop it and folks that stick with it will be running a risk and most americans will drop away from it out of fear.

Originally Posted by Kijjo

list of 4 things...

5. Try to stop it unsuccessfully for a while, go f-ck it and legalize it for medicinal purposes.... HU4SCRIPS???

Originally Posted by OP

I just took out 3K from Stars at the end of May, got the check, deposited in my bank and it cleared....today I got an email from support saying that the same cashout request couldnt be processed and the $$ has been returned to my account...so I'm pretty sure I just beat Pokerstars HU4ROLLZ

So poker stars paid you twice? Good thing I don't have much invested.

wtf is that going to do to the internet poker sites if they don't have usa players, can the govt. make a deal with these sites and recvd some funds, that what its all about the benjamins. get on board with other countries usa, sht, we got casinos, strip clubs and all the smut online and magazines sites their are, why not online poker?? what's up..

i don't bank at any of those banks so i should be fine ?

Originally Posted by littleogre

i don't bank at any of those banks so i should be fine ?

I think the problem is originating with the banks and processors that the sites draw their money from for payouts. Which is why so many checks are bouncing. The gov't has frozen so many accounts that the sites are having to scramble to find available money to honor their checks. So its still possible (and likely) that all US players will be affected by this.

Originally Posted by St8ofN8

Originally Posted by littleogre

i don't bank at any of those banks so i should be fine ?

I think the problem is originating with the banks and processors that the sites draw their money from for payouts. Which is why so many checks are bouncing. The gov't has frozen so many accounts that the sites are having to scramble to find available money to honor their checks. So its still possible (and likely) that all US players will be affected by this.

Have any sites stated how long it's gonna take to find a new processor or to figure out some other way around this ?

Full Tilt issued a statement basically saying no problem, keep paying, we'll be good. Not sure if Stars has done similar, if they're just sending emails to individuals.

Any statements from cereus/ub ?

Originally Posted by kmind

I just requested a check about a week ago. Should? be interesting. I should be ok with BB&T right?

Blah still no sign of the check. Should I be scared of not getting it or getting it and it bouncing?

The later it gets shipped the less worried you should be. PokerStars say it takes 15 business days, if I were them I'd be using all of that time before sending out a huge batch of new checks to make sure nothing goes wrong for the time being.

Read the internetpoker thread on 2p2, sounds like a few people have received good checks.

oh, luls, realized you play on FullTilt, you're probably fucked as while 27% rakeback is secksy, dealing with the worst support team in poker is not.

Kijjo Posted: Sun, 14 Jun 2009, 1:05am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've really pondered about why they won't legalize and regulate it to make the extra tax revenue. I'm really getting concerned for our country because like so many other things, there's only a couple reasons I can think of why they would do this, and personally I think all these reasons suck:
1. The politicians think they know what's best for people, so they will decide that you can't handle things like online poker and take it away from you like a parent would a child.
2. They want as much control over any area of american life as they can get and realize that it would be very very difficult to ever really control a system like regulating online gambling, so they rather just nix it.
3. They don't WANT the extra tax revenue because they're not trying to fix our countrie's budget problem, by making it worse and bringing everyone to their knees economically, they can amass more control (think this is crazy? THEY OWN BANKS and CAR COMPANIES!). They can seek greater tax revenue options once they've reconfigured the struture of our country.
4. They are simply oblivious and ignorant.

As I said, none of these possibilities offer much hope for where this is going to end up.
Best I would guess is that they'll try to stop it and folks that stick with it will be running a risk and most americans will drop away from it out of fear.

this...
OR

Politicians want more than anything to keep being politicians and get re-elected. The people they listen to equate gambling, porn, homosexuality and probably smoking with immorality, and they assume a majority of people feel the same....and, unfortunately, right now the prevailing opinion of online poker is down there with porn sites and professional wrestling, so no one (not many anyway) is coming to the rescue.

What site is it? If it's Stars or Tilt, I wouldn't think there would be a need to worry so long as you don't need it right away. These sites make too much money and don't want to lose customers. The only real threat to their business are things like hurting their integrity like cheating or not paying out. They have too much of an investment to not figure out a way to pay and if the check is coming from a bank, I don't see how anyone can prevent it.

Does anyone have more technical details on what funds were seized and on what grounds? It was my understanding that playing poker online isn't illegal nor is withdrawing - the legal implications surround depositing and they are aimed at institutions.

I think someone should start a thread or use this one to figure out a reasonably easy way to set-up a bank account off shore like England and use it to get funds in and out of sites and in and out of your American account. Doing that would theoretically put ALL sites in play and get all these USA hassles off our back.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

The later it gets shipped the less worried you should be. PokerStars say it takes 15 business days, if I were them I'd be using all of that time before sending out a huge batch of new checks to make sure nothing goes wrong for the time being.

Read the internetpoker thread on 2p2, sounds like a few people have received good checks.

oh, luls, realized you play on FullTilt, you're probably fucked as while 27% rakeback is secksy, dealing with the worst support team in poker is not.

Haha for real. They are horrible. I requested the check 5/20 and it was supposed to take 15 business days. I also move out the 27th. FML

Originally Posted by Jason

I think someone should start a thread or use this one to figure out a reasonably easy way to set-up a bank account off shore like England and use it to get funds in and out of sites and in and out of your American account. Doing that would theoretically put ALL sites in play and get all these USA hassles off our back.

I'm in Canada and could partner with an investor to fund the startup of a clearinghouse operation here. I'm a professional software developer currently writing boring business apps for the federal police. Wouldn't be much of a change to write boring business apps for a clearinghouse operation.

Originally Posted by van.dog

Originally Posted by Jason

I think someone should start a thread or use this one to figure out a reasonably easy way to set-up a bank account off shore like England and use it to get funds in and out of sites and in and out of your American account. Doing that would theoretically put ALL sites in play and get all these USA hassles off our back.

I'm in Canada and could partner with an investor to fund the startup of a clearinghouse operation here. I'm a professional software developer currently writing boring business apps for the federal police. Wouldn't be much of a change to write boring business apps for a clearinghouse operation.

...except there are very strict reporting and disclosure requirements for the transfer of funds in to the US that are deeply intertwined and carefully policed by Homeland Security, the IRS, DEA and anyone associated with tax revenues, money laundering , terrorism and a wide host of other initiatives. The per transaction reporting threshold is relatively low, and the per annum cap is not much higher.

This is a bad idea as this is not a group in the aggregate that you want to f-k with.... or ever want to be able to get your money back into the country.

united states of freedom lolz

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

united states of freedom lolz

I think you mean "United States of Shut Up & Do What You're Told"

Common mistake, really.

Originally Posted by kmind

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

The later it gets shipped the less worried you should be. PokerStars say it takes 15 business days, if I were them I'd be using all of that time before sending out a huge batch of new checks to make sure nothing goes wrong for the time being.

Read the internetpoker thread on 2p2, sounds like a few people have received good checks.

oh, luls, realized you play on FullTilt, you're probably fucked as while 27% rakeback is secksy, dealing with the worst support team in poker is not.

Haha for real. They are horrible. I requested the check 5/20 and it was supposed to take 15 business days. I also move out the 27th. FML

I requested check from stars on the the 2nd and I got it on the 20th
I wouldn't blame tilt because stars has similar delays

I just hope I get it before my vacation the 26th so I have spending money/won't have to check the mail of my EX-apartment.