Donk Flop?

UTG is 16/8 regish. Cbets a ton, likely has a strong range.

$0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($4.33)
UTG+1 ($4)
MP1 ($5.25)
MP2 ($4)
MP3 ($2.28)
CO ($3.48)
BTN ($4)
JKDS (SB) ($4.29)
BB ($4.84)

Pre-Flop: ($0.06, 9 players) JKDS is SB
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.14, 5 folds, JKDS calls $0.12, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players)
JKDS checks??, UTG+1 bets $0.21, JKDS calls $0.21??

Turn: ($0.74, 2 players)
JKDS bets $0.48, UTG+1 calls $0.48

River: ($1.70, 2 players)
JKDS bets $0.96, UTG+1 calls $0.96

Pre: Cant really 3bet pre, hes probably opening <4% utg
Flop: So many options. Hes almost always going to bet the flop, so i elected to c/c. Why might I want to donk instead?

Turn: With the J, the only aces i get value from now are AQ. He can still have QQ, and KK, so i bet on the smaller side thinking these 3 hands wouldnt be likely to call larger bets meanwhile minimizing my losses against JJ, TT, AJ, AA

River: Same idea

I can't find a single reason to donk this flop so if this is a test I fail. Turn I bet bigger because we have mad equity vs his entire range and I'm happy to get it in if he raises.

i just c/c, c/c, c/decide idk imma fish

i like 3b or call pre, both are fine. Check-call flop is good. Turn is interesting, you look really strong if you play this turn aggressively so i like check-calling. Betting turn is better than check-raising, bet a little bigger than you did.

Def c/c flop. I don't like donking turn as I can't see what worse calls but AQ will may bet if checked to. Maybe lead river.

If you think he'll call with QQ/KK then donking the turn is great. Otherwise a check/call is better. Without any reads, I would assume he would fold those hands on an A-high board, so I'd check.

i'm kind of keen to C/R flop because he won't fold AQ (which outweighs AK in his range due to blockers) and probably doesn't put another cent in the pot at any point with anything worse than AQ (ie the rest of his range is basically underpairs which either make a set and pwn us, or stay underpairs and don't give us a cent) . i honestly don't know what i want to do on the turn but as best i can tell it's close between leading and check/calling.

also 3betting pre makes no sense to me. interested to hear rationale behind doing so.

After reading the comments and talking to some peeps...i like a c/c on the turn and then either a b/f, c/c, or c/f on the river depending on what happens.

C/r flop is interesting, but i dont know if he'll fold aq to a c/r or not. Betting seems to kill a bet i might have gotten from KK/QQ/JJ so i think c/c is best here.

I think KK and QQ would be more likely to call a river bet than a turn bet...so in terms of value i dont like leading the turn any more. As far as the draw goes...since his range is strong and i has Topest of Pairs, i like a c/c line more. Leading or c/ring here just puts money in when im an underdog...which while i have odds to do...seems less beneficial than just c/c-ing. if he has a set...he probably wont fold to a runner runner flush anyway so i dont lose any value from the draw.

River, meh. If he checks behind the turn, i bet cuz hes likely only checking back hands like KK,QQ, and AQ. If he bet the turn, c/f seems the most likely. He probably wont fire 3 with KK or QQ (if he even fired 2), AQ might slow down, idk. If he bet small i think i call still

@supa: meh, donking seemed good when i posted it! c/c seems the clear best now

Click this flop back imo.

Interesting spot. Seems like we're looking at lines to get paid off against KK, QQ, AQ since we put him on 4% pf.

There are 12 AQs, 3KKs and 6QQs. Plus there is the nuttier side of his range that we have lots of equity against on the turn and the extra implied odds that come from backdooring.

Flop I like c/c, turn I think maybe leading for more than you did is better than check calling.

First, he's unlikely to fold the hand he's most likely to have if were ahead (AQ) and will probably not fold it to 2 streets worth of betting.

Second, he may well call a donk with the 9 KK/QQ figuring to have gut shot + set outs even if he's behind (and being at 4NL and becoming attached to pf monsters). He may not call a river bet with them, particularly if the spades come in or an 8/9.

Third, If we're playing against AK he may fold to the river bet if you showed strength on the turn.

Fourth, if he reraises or shoves, you could easily put AK/AQ in his range and be happy to get it in with 13 outs to the nuts if you're behind.

Bet/fold this river after turn bet. idk, apart from turn sizing I like the way you played the hand.

Originally Posted by Carroters

Click this flop back imo.

to get value from what? AQ? are we folding if he 3 bets it? I respect your opinion just wanna understand.

I would chk call this down to reasonable bets if he starts trying to get stax in I prolly give it up I dont see him going for stax with less than AK.

Donking this flop is a move that's so bad that it tilts me when my opponents do it. He's betting this flop like 100% of the time (unless he has KK-JJ, in which case we can put him in tough spots by betting turn and river); no need to steal the initiative from him.

Micro cash isnt my specialty, but isnt 3betting OOP standard here and taking down the pot a bunch + a bunch on flops when we continue?

As played I think I like c/r flop because we're a little undervalued (opponent might expect us to have A-rag, not AK since no 3bet pre) and might be pretty willing to stack off with AJ/AQ. Assuming I c/r'd the flop for a reasonable amount, I'm betting the turn and not folding to any raises/shoves.

You really should 3bet preflop and bet the flop.

Originally Posted by Sykedupp

Micro cash isnt my specialty, but isnt 3betting OOP standard here and taking down the pot a bunch + a bunch on flops when we continue?

It's really bad range manipulation. You're just giving him a chance to fold all the hands we dominate. This is why playing against UTG+1 OOP blows so hard because even the third nuts are meh.

If we're in position, I love CiB'ing it because that is awesome range manipulation (he'll feel obligated to 4b his hands that dominate us, he will never turn the bottom of his range into a bluff and he's not going to fold hands that we dominate because he'll be getting ridiculous odds).

clicking it backing

Std, kinda like runs batted ins.

I hate your turn sizing. This is where you want to go for stacks. Reg at 4nl? If you donk turn, which I agree with, at least set up river for shove. This is a c/c b, b. I think click it back is interesting.

Man are regs really so bad at 4nl that you're auto playing for stacks in this spot. I mean, I know they're bad but damn

pretty sure we should be folding pre v top 4% of hands OOP

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

pretty sure we should be folding pre v top 4% of hands OOP

But don't tell anybody