Differences between micro NL and micro MTT

Ive switched over to playing half MTTs and half FR NL5. But I am absolutly getting crushed in my ring gams. I'm trying to figure out what is the deal with these things?!?!

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($2.82)
MP1 ($4.06)
MP2 ($3.90)
CO ($1)
Button ($2.40)
SB ($5.27)
BB ($5)
Hero (UTG) ($5)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.08, CO (poster) calls $0.06, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.33) 8, 9, 4 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.33, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.66, Hero raises to $1.80, BB raises to $4.92 (All-In), Hero calls $3.12 (All-In)

Turn: ($10.17) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($10.17) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $10.17 | Rake: $0.50

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($2.75)
UTG ($4.16)
UTG+1 ($3.55)
MP1 ($3.93)
MP2 ($5.23)
MP3 ($2.28)
CO ($4.50)
Button ($5.06)
Hero (SB) ($4.84)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
5 folds, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.24) A, 10, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.18, CO calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.60) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.52, CO calls $0.52

River: ($1.64) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $1.64 | Rake: $0.05

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($1.44)
Hero (Button) ($5.78)
SB ($1.37)
BB ($3)
UTG ($3.22)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 5, K, 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.08, BB calls $0.08

Turn: ($0.33) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, BB calls $0.25

River: ($0.83) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $0.70, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.83 | Rake: $0

"Times","Win %","Amount Won","$/Hand","BB/Hand","Blind","CCPF","VP$IP","W$WSF","PFR","RFI"," LWPC","WTSD","W$SD"

1216, 7.32, (-27.68), (-0.02), (-0.17), 321, 12.72, 16.20, 26.34, 6.50, 9.76, 62.96, 23.87, 36.21

Hear ya, transition from MTT to FR Cash was tough adjustment for me too when I first did it (went -8 Buy-Ins in first 2k hands)

1200 Hands is such a small sample size, post your stats again once ya hit 10k

Regarding your hands, here are my thoughts:
1.) Either Call Flop Re-Raise/re-evaluate Turn or fold is fine too. Don't like the shove, would expect to see mostly 2-Pair+ playing for stacks on that flop (maybe an QQ/KK or occasional Axs nut flush draw)

2.) Like the action down to the river, you charged for the draw. River is so read-dependent (hint). Without reads, probably fold to the >PSB bet and make a note.

3.) Bet more on the flop (.10-.12), I like the turn bet and without reads I am calling down the river and expecting to win a fair bit of the time.

Again, reads/stats are so helpful in these situations, including them will result in better analysis/discussion.

Hope this helps, good luck!!

ring games take more skill, that's why

Originally Posted by iopq

ring games take more skill, that's why

Seriously? Is this the general consensus? Either way I have a ton to learn by switching to rings.

Originally Posted by Cougar

Hear ya, transition from MTT to FR Cash was tough adjustment for me too when I first did it (went -8 Buy-Ins in first 2k hands)

1200 Hands is such a small sample size, post your stats again once ya hit 10k

Regarding your hands, here are my thoughts:
1.) Either Call Flop Re-Raise/re-evaluate Turn or fold is fine too. Don't like the shove, would expect to see mostly 2-Pair+ playing for stacks on that flop (maybe an QQ/KK or occasional Axs nut flush draw)

2.) Like the action down to the river, you charged for the draw. River is so read-dependent (hint). Without reads, probably fold to the >PSB bet and make a note.

3.) Bet more on the flop (.10-.12), I like the turn bet and without reads I am calling down the river and expecting to win a fair bit of the time.

Again, reads/stats are so helpful in these situations, including them will result in better analysis/discussion.

Hope this helps, good luck!!

I'll be able to post reads/villain stats from now on.

I agree, ring games take a lot more skill.
I had a lot of trouble when switching as well, i was down quite a bit before I dug myself out of the red.

One change I made was to buyin for 100bb($2), looks like you're buying in for the max.
This made a lot of my commitment decisions much easier, especially with overpairs and TPTK type hands.
Also, it's harder for others to extract the value for their "miracle" hands that many at 2nl like to play.

Note: You're actually playing 2nl (100bb x .02 = $2)

generally speaking, none of your bets should be less than half pot because they don't really accomplish anything.

when in doubt, bet close to 2/3rds pot
if the board is dry bet less.
when its wet or i think someones drawing, bet more.
if its a wet board multiway and my hand is likely best but vulnerable, bet pot.

obviously pretty general, but it should give you a bit more of an idea on how to tailor your bet sizing

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

Originally Posted by iopq

ring games take more skill, that's why

Seriously? Is this the general consensus? Either way I have a ton to learn by switching to rings.

it's tougher playing deep

Thanks for the responses guys...One thing I have always thought was kind of weird was that even though I was playing 1c-2c blinds, I could always buy in for $5. Shouldnt you always buy in for the max so you are able to extract as much as you can per "playing for stacks"?

My experience as a new player is that the more i buy in for the faster I go down in the red. I'm not experienced enough to maximize my winnings.

I'm basically a fish for the sharks so why not let them take smaller bites than a $5 buy in?

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

Thanks for the responses guys...One thing I have always thought was kind of weird was that even though I was playing 1c-2c blinds, I could always buy in for $5. Shouldnt you always buy in for the max so you are able to extract as much as you can per "playing for stacks"?

Depends. Playing 200bb deep is different than playing 100bb deep, which is different than playing 60bb or 40bb deep. Your ranges must change, villain's ranges are likely to change, etc. So if you are inexperienced playing 200bb deep, then it's likely not the greatest idea to buyin for 250bb when others at the table are that deep also. If you are fine with playing that deep, and have an edge over the competition, then sure it's a good idea as you have more chips on the table for when you induce them to make mistakes.

I havent played enough hands to know if I have an edge or not. PT tells me I suck so I guess ill focus on 100bb being thats what you buyin for as you move up levels.

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

I havent played enough hands to know if I have an edge or not. PT tells me I suck so I guess ill focus on 100bb being thats what you buyin for as you move up levels.

You can buy-in for 75 or 80 bb's which protects your TPTK from the nut-campers a bit and still allows you to profit well when you hit your hand.

I'd like to think cash takes more skill than tourneys, but I suck at tourneys and do well at cash. I think it's a different skill set.

The main thing I lack that most SnG/MTT players have is patience. I can't tell at the beginning of a session whether I'm ready to play for an hour or not.

There are some extremely skillful tourney players who play hardly any cash. I'd like to hear what mcatdog thinks. He's the person on FTR who seems to play the most even mix of tourneys and cash and has had massive success at both, imo.

At what limit-ish should you no longer short buy? Or is that like some 1000 level thinking where you just know ?

I second the notion about hearing mcatdogs thoughts!

Originally Posted by revolvingiris

At what limit-ish should you no longer short buy? Or is that like some 1000 level thinking where you just know ?

I second the notion about hearing mcatdogs thoughts!

at 2NL if you're rolled for it

lol k, I never do I was just wondering.