difference between 25NL and 10NL

i am by no means saying i am a great poker player. but, i have carried a very nice win rate at the 10's. i used to carry a good one at 25, 50, and even was positive at 100. i moved down for various reasons, but, recently, got the "itch" to move back up...and see if i have learned from playing more aggressively and a bit more loosely lately.

heres the story, take out of it what you will...this is only 4 days of research, and only 2500 hands...so, not a huge sample, but i think i have picked up on a few things...this is all 6max.


tonight was the absolute worst, but i also learned the most. i think i adjust fairly quickly, but it still takes a bit of time.

first, 25 doesnt let you open-limp. one of my favorite tactics at the 10's.

next, you have to be ready to CALL some raises with sc's, etc. its happening to you up there, so, fight fire with fire.

third, i still havent figured out how often they are bluffing...if its even often.

fourth, be ready for variance. when you call some raises, and do some raising yourself...but dont take much past the flop...it gets expensive quickly when you miss.

tonight, i stayed at the 25's, even though i was getting my ASS kicked. i lost $60...and took a stack in the process. (very rare for me, as i can be a bit of a nit...and therefore, consistently growing my roll...my largest downswing i can remember is about 5 BI's..honest).

i thought, "this cant be variance. it has to be me." i tried as hard as i could to play the exact way i play at the 10's. cbetting when i would, raising some pp's, 3betting pf, and post flop when up against a bully. shit like that. most of it backfired...because i missed my next cards, too.

so, i moved down. i thought, "well, i can go back to where i KNOW i can kick some ass of my own."

within 15 hands...and i have discipline so this wasnt tilt (not in the least...honest)...i was down another 80% of a buy-in. i looked at my tables (3 open), and ALL THREE WERE DOWN. that never happens!!

but, here's the funny thing. i was able to limp. but i still missed, and when i hit...i still got raised, and RRed. IT WAS THE EXACT SAME POST-FLOP!! very weird. so, i settled my mind on the fact...

it might be 95% variance. what a bitch.

i didnt read all of the first thread, but the 25NL is easiy beatable even if you just limp/set mine.

even 50 nl is pretty easy for nits. I play about 32/19/3 at 6 max 50nl and normally do well. I try to raise alot of hands from position limpers or not and c bet all heads up flops and 75% of the rest. I do though raise a little light and my cbets are around 1/3 to 1/2 the pot. If someone wll fold to a 3/4 pot size bet 1/2 will do the same. Also smaller bets keep people from puting there stack in with draws as theres not as much money to win as far as fold equity is concerned. When i hit the flop hard ill normally pot it or 3/4 it followed by a hftey turn bet, honestly at 50NL no one notices anyway, well not enough of them notice to make a difference is a better way to put it. aAnd when you do run into thnking playes just change it up,. bet 3/4 when you miss and 1/2 when you hit or whatever.It works 8/10 times.

PLAY

ABC

POKER

^^^POST WHORE

Originally Posted by Chopper

first, 25 doesnt let you open-limp. one of my favorite tactics at the 10's.

Select better tables or sit in good position against aggressive players.

Originally Posted by Chopper

next, you have to be ready to CALL some raises with sc's, etc. its happening to you up there, so, fight fire with fire.

With good SCs, this should be a part of a game at probably all limits. If you're beating up on fish by open-limping a lot (which I totally agree with), you should definitely be calling in position with SCs. It's the same theory.

Originally Posted by Chopper

third, i still havent figured out how often they are bluffing...if its even often.

It's waaaaay too often for some players, and virtually never for the rest of 'em. You should be able to spot those guys.

Originally Posted by Chopper

as i can be a bit of a nit...

i looked at my tables (3 open), and ALL THREE WERE DOWN. that never happens!!

That should be common for a nit. You're not going too far with marginal hands, and you're not playing many hands. For instance, calling raises with PPs and missing, and maybe a raise with AK and you don't get a flop fold. It shouldn't last too long, though.

Originally Posted by Chopper

it might be 95% variance. what a bitch.

It probably is. 10NL is easier than 25NL, but 25NL is still sooooo easy. Your game (from what I can tell from lots of posts) is a big winner at 25NL.

yeah the post whore never really contributes anythng here. He just spams and critisizes with no backing. Prett much a waste of bandwith. Anyway to mute someone?

Originally Posted by SHAKE

Anyway to mute someone?

Not that I'm aware of. But he's not that bad.

I just thought it was super-silly to post a point in that manner. Especially when OP understands that well.

what's a post whore?

you guys are cracking me up.

thanks for the vote of confidence, segge (lol, typo). i have been modest at 25 and higher in the past...i'm sure i will adjust, but it suxors for the time being.

the OP was to illuminate the newbies' condition. and encourage them to move up...by giving them some points to expect when they do. anyone who posts with any regularity should be able to beat a 25 game.

shake, spenda aint that bad...he just likes to get pissed at me when i speak like a donkeynit. he knows i aint a true donkey...i just revisit the herd a little too often, and wont let you or me get away with crappy posts, either.

if theres a question about where he's coming from...just read his newer signature...lol.

At 25NL you have decent regs, while you don't really have that at 10NL since the buy in is small and anyone with success at 10NL moves up pretty quickly. I actually think 10 to 25 is a MUCH bigger jump than 25 to 50, which play almost identically to me.

10NL is a total donkfest, 25NL there's a lot better play but it's still totally beatable just with tight play and setmining. I wouldn't advise bluffing much as there are a lot of calling stations. Don't slowplay, and bet your good hands.

If you become profitable at 25NL over say 30K hands, move to 50NL.

The only difference is there are fewer complete idiots. There are still plenty of poor players, plenty of people who are too passive, bet too small, and call down with marginal hands, but the ones who will throw their stack away with gay abandon are much fewer.

There MAY be a few decent players - not stellar, but have a good ABC background and aren't afraid to use position and raises to take down pots. All you have to do is identify them and make sure you play your best against them and avoid making the moves which will only work on poor or weak players.

So, try and figure out which of your opponents is what - a HUD will help here. If you identify the good players, the maniacs, and the rocks, you should be able to tailor your play accordingly and continue to win well.

Oh, and play ABC poker

BTW when someone 3 bets you in 25NL they tend to have a hand.

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

BTW when someone 3 bets you in 25NL they tend to have a hand.

that, and the lack of complete donkeyisms, i have noticed. much rarer to get stacks in w/o a very strong hand. thats where i am getting beat right now...and why my frustration level has climbed so high. i am much more willing to go to stacks than they are, and therefore, when i get called, they got me.

at 10, its one bet, two bet, push over. and at 25, its much lighter than that.

so, to counter that, i have been 3betting light here, both pf and on the flop, to see where i stand. i remember they tend to 3bet a lot more often up at 100, too. so, if it takes a 3bet to "send a message" up there, it oughta work like gold down lower...and for the most part it defines a hand extremely well.

the other one that gets me is the c/call, c/call, c/push line. i assume its a suckout, but it could also be a bluff attempt at bumping TPTK out of a hand. that may be me thinking too much down here, but it has me befuddled a bit. i havent been strong enough to call one yet, but eventually, i will, and i'll have some idea then...i guess.

c/c, c/c, c/push is NOT a bluff.
c/c, c/c, push might be.

Also, I constantly see people three betting and calling pushes with about 40BBs preflop and showing down hands like 44.