also, once in a while you find someone that always thinks you're bluffing and will call massive bets when the flush hits (this is implied odds). Also, if he has two pair or trips, you have to get rid of 1-2 of your flush outs (reverse implied odds). So yea, what you said about getting lots of ppl in the hand, knowing your odds of the turn AND turn/river, and in general having reads is very important.