Checkraising nut flush draw when first to act; my experience

Long post boys, just letting ya know in advance.

Last night in my cash game i tried something new (for me). I was in EP in a 7 player game, tournament style, $6000 chips to start, blinds at $100/$200. First player folded and i looked down at:



Raised to $800, got two callers, button and BB, both aggressive players. flop comes down:



Normally the correct play is to bet here, about 1/2 the pot, and try to win the pot right there. But knowing i was up against two aggressive players i decided to check, knowing one of them would bet and setting up a raise. sure enough, 1st caller bet $800 and second one called. since we play all the time i put the first guy on K's, maybe K's and 9's, and the second guy on some kind of draw but possibly a weak hand like A9 or setting a trap with a set. i raised it $1200. first guy calls, second guy folds. turn is:



Now i got to take some time to think. if he's got K's or K's and 9's i know he's gonna bet. i havent made a hand yet, and even if i hit my A it might not even be good. if i bet i feel he's gonna raise me. pot now has $7500 in it. ive got around 3k left, he's got about the same. i dont want to push all in and be drawing just to the club knowing that if hes got TopPair or Two pair im getting called. so i do what i dont want to do, i check. and to my surprise, the guy im sure would bet any made hand CHECKS. river is:



i sit for a bit, doing a little acting, and bet all-in. he thinks and folds. i showed him the flush, he showed me a straight and says he wanted to bet on the turn but was scared of another raise. so i was totally wrong about what cards he had but the check raise was able to buy me a free card. if he had bet the turn i wouldve folded. just wondering if anyone wouldve played this in a similar fashion and if anyone else does the same thing every now and then. any criticism is appreciated. i need any help i can get.

Wargh double post.

He called a 4x bb with Q10 and then called a check raise on the flop with inside? Those are some terrible players man.

Anyway, as for the play I've never, ever respected a check raise that checks after the turn on a board like that. Especially when a blank like a 2 of hearts hits, a pre flop raise of 4x there's no way in hell he should be worried about that turn card the only way he should have been worried is if it was a club or the board paired. He should have put your on flush draw and tried to scare you off which as you admitted you were worried about and it sounds like you would have folded.

Anyway, no, I don't like a play like this out of position unless you are prepared to follow it up on the turn and really rep that Ak or KK, which he may have actually pushed with you when you hit his jack if he put you on one of those hands. A check on the turn screams flush draw.

Originally Posted by Hubris1

He called a 4x bb with Q10 and then called a check raise on the flop with inside? Those are some terrible players man.

Anyway, as for the play I've never, ever respected a check raise that checks after the turn on a board like that. Especially when a blank like a 2 of hearts hits, a pre flop raise of 4x there's no way in hell he should be worried about that turn card the only way he should have been worried is if it was a club or the board paired. He should have put your on flush draw and tried to scare you off which as you admitted you were worried about and it sounds like you would have folded.

Anyway, no, I don't like a play like this out of position unless you are prepared to follow it up on the turn and really rep that Ak or KK, which he may have actually pushed with you when you hit his jack if he put you on one of those hands. A check on the turn screams flush draw.

nice post, i agree.....check raise represents 2pr/AK something big...when the rag falls, that should either significantly improve your odds with a made hand, or cut them in half with a draw....checking implies the latter

fortunately you were both on draws (opponent had the weak straight draw) and you had taken control of the pot with the reraise, so you set yourself up well if he were to play it straight....if he made a move on the checked turn, he would have taken it down....

This is one of the advantages of a check/raise from EP. Often you will be able to check the turn and your opponent will check, fearing another check/raise.

Anyway, as for the play I've never, ever respected a check raise that checks after the turn on a board like that. Especially when a blank like a 2 of hearts hits, a pre flop raise of 4x there's no way in hell he should be worried about that turn card the only way he should have been worried is if it was a club or the board paired. He should have put your on flush draw and tried to scare you off which as you admitted you were worried about and it sounds like you would have folded

I have used this many times to my advantage. This weekend I flopped top set in an aggressive game, checkraised the flop, turn, AND river. I'll only checkraise with the nut draw if I put my opponent on a weak hand, like TPGK or less. (yes, I consider this a weak hand) In other words I would checkraise wit hthe intent of betting the turn regardless of what comes. You can often win this way. Your checkraise says that you have a big hand that still needs protection like trips or 2 pair. Be prepared to follow it up. Sometimes (again, rarely) it may be correct to check after you have made your flush to act as though you are afraid your "2 pair" is beat.

Remember, you make money in poker when your opponents make mistakes. In the above example your opponent was right to check after you since you had him beat with your ace high. He was right to fold on the river when his straight was beat. The best way to play this would have been to bet at least 2/3 the pot on the turn, and if he called he would have the wrong odds to do it. When he made his straight, and you bet he most likely would have raised! making you a lot more. Admittedly, you put him on K9 (not sure why, but trust your instinct) and the other player possibly setting a trap with a set. So, given your reads, I think the checkraise was a bad play.
Congrats on your win though.