2 Pair river call?

ok, then pls give your range for him calling preflop, for flop bet and turn b/c. leave the river , just curios about what you think he's calling pre, donk flop and b/c river if he hasnt 8x and he is 3betting QQ pre.

vinland thought about QT and J9, so if he has these, why would he not have 78s,89s, T8s?


so , i sure need to learn a lot more, so icanhas, in your opinion, what does a 18/12 call in SB vs a UTG open?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

so , i sure need to learn a lot more, so icanhas, in your opinion, what does a 18/12 call in SB vs a UTG open?

I don't have a fucking clue cause we have no relevant reads besides vpip/pfr gap.

Probably like QQ(a non zero %), JJ(nearly 100%), 22-TT, All suited broadways but not all of them 100% so something like KQs 100%, KJs/QJs/JTs 75%, KT/QTs 50%, AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo.

This is the widest I would give him and this is pretty generous. Knowing if this guy is a winner or not will be pretty huge in determining a more accurate range. Adding this to our reads we should have acquired and we should be able to be pretty accurate.

His flop donk range can be ANYTHING in his range, so can his turn donk range because we have NO postflop reads.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

I don't have a fucking clue cause we have no relevant reads besides vpip/pfr gap.

Probably like QQ(a non zero %), JJ(nearly 100%), 22-TT, All suited broadways but not all of them 100% so something like KQs 100%, KJs/QJs/JTs 75%, KT/QTs 50%, AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo.

His flop donk range can be ANYTHING in his range, so can his turn donk range because we have NO postflop reads.

considering all this you said, isnt it a reason more to check back the river and aquire some info since we have none about his postflop play? if we see he has played like this KQ, QJs, AQ, QTs, JTs, KTs,JJ,99 then next time we can make a value bet w/ KK+, AQ,KQ since there is the possibility to have our bet getting called by enough worse to make the bet +EV.
also we can get cheap the info on the river about his preflop calling range if he has any 8x and how he plays them w/o risking now of getting c/r by bluffs or worst holdings w/ no other info about villain.
once we aquire this info now by checking back river we can make better decisions later vs this guy, so even if we lose some value now by checking back river, we can inrease our profit vs this guy w/ the info we get.


given the preflop range you gave, how should we play the flop? raise for value and reduce his range to QT,QJ,KQ an fold his 99-JJ and all other air or just call the monkey flop bet and keep his range wide since we are big favourits vs his non 8x range and he can spew some more with a wider range on turn?
turn, should we raise/fold and again reduce his range to AQ+ or we can hope to charge his KQ,KJ( for OESD) , QJ,JJ,JT ( hoping for a 9 gutshot),99 ( for a J gutshout), his non beliver KTs sometimes or should we just call his turn bet and hope he'd fire river again w/ worse Qx, Tx, JJ and bet when he checks hoping he's calling worse?

Originally Posted by Razvan729

considering all this you said, isnt it a reason more to check back the river and aquire some info since we have none about his postflop play? if we see he has played like this KQ, QJs, AQ, QTs, JTs, KTs,JJ,99 then next time we can make a value bet w/ KK+, AQ,KQ since there is the possibility to have our bet getting called by enough worse to make the bet +EV.
also we can get cheap the info on the river about his preflop calling range if he has any 8x and how he plays them w/o risking now of getting c/r by bluffs or worst holdings w/ no other info about villain.
once we aquire this info now by checking back river we can make better decisions later vs this guy, so even if we lose some value now by checking back river, we can inrease our profit vs this guy w/ the info we get.

But we can get value now. We're missing value if we don't bet imo.

Originally Posted by ColdDecked

But we can get value now. We're missing value if we don't bet imo.

we can get value from what? KQ,QJ,JJ,99,KT,JT? any decent player would fold these on the turn and if he doesnt fold these on turn vs our raise hoping to make 2pair or straight, then he will surely c/f river cause we cant value bet river w/ worse then AQ. so his river c/c range should be AQ,QT and c/r 88,TT.

any dumbass player would probably c/c river w/ those hands, but since we have no reads and his stats dont show him as a dumbass player, we can assume he is folding them on river just like we assumed he has no 8x pre, so we have no hands to value bet in his range.